Speak Out Loud NA

Wednesday, June 08, 2005

CM Seabrook Said It All At Monday's Council

The Monday night City-Council meeting was predictable for the most part, with everyone fulfilling their "roles" in this very expensive merry-go-round ride it feels as though we're on.
Just when I thought I was going to explode out of my seat before I could hear another word said, something rang through to my ears... "there's just no oversight out there."-
CM Seabrook.
Granted, he was speaking specifically about a drainage repair project 2 administrations ago, but his words startled me as being about the most intelligent thing I had heard out of a CM yet that evening. What a simple statement to sum up our current dilemma.
I believe it was later when CM Schmidt announced he had recieved the requested copies of financial data from Mrs. Garry's office, and provided copies of the information to each CM. He also announced he would have comments regarding the information after taking the time necessary to familiarize himself with the contents. That was also intelligent and courageous.
I would like to say, thank you, Mr. Schmidt, for being a man of integrity and true public service.
Mr. Seabrook's comment also highlighted Valla Ann's return, with 11 and 1/2 minutes of prepared research and thought provoking challenges to all CM's to be accountable to their constituents, and protect and preserve all citizen's rights to know just what the hell's been going on with the departamental games of suffleboard.
My take is that all Valla Ann is trying to say is "...there's just no oversight out there."
We need oversight, we expect accountability, and we deserve to be informed.
Undoubtedly, there is no "whitch hunt" the Mayor repeatedly (to my astonishment) refers to, as nobody is after someone, but there's a growing number of folks who are after something, and that something is information and oversight.
There's no doubt that the situation we find our city in, the problems most departments are facing, can be at least partially attributed to a lack of oversight and accountability. And it's been going on way too long. Before this administration I'm sure, but the buck stops here. We have to stop the bleeding. New albany, sadly, has been badly wounded.
It's time to fix old problems, and set the records straight. This is not the time to throw ALL our precious resources into a project that most folks know very little about.
If the Mayor is truly not aware of the divided sentiments in this town regarding the YMCA/Scribner Place project, then he is truly unaware of us "little people" who are just trying to survive out here.

posted by East Ender at 2:10 AM

76 Comments:

  • NA's problems exemplify the same problems cities and towns across the US are having due to trickle down funding from Washington. I have been reading the newspapers of South Carolina, especially the Post Courier of Charleston whilst on vacation and believe me; they have some of the same problems down here as our beloved NA.

    By Blogger edward parish, at 7:00 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • I am a little people, I own a small business, I’m trying to just survive in this turn down economy! And just like life, you get out of it what you put in to it, I am smart enough to know that this city has a life too, a life that is on life support!

    Scribner Place is not the end all answer to downtown revitalization, but it is the first step in the right direction. It is the shot in the arm this city has been looking for and needed for years. There are way to many people talking about Scribner Place that know very little about it, the council work session last week was a good place to start learning about the project. Many folks take what they read in these blogs and local papers as the gospel, one thing about this great nation is the freedom of the press, but that doesn’t always mean the press is 100% correct in its reporting of events. I am not saying that there has been any misquotes in the both papers, and I am not saying that anyone would tell an out and out lie in this blog or any other, I am just saying don’t always believe what you read or hear!

    Go to the meetings and find out for yourself what is going on, I started attending council meeting a few months ago, and was amazed not only at the amount of information I received, but the entertainment value as well. But I digress.

    Back to Scribner Place, no one has said anything about raising property taxes to fund the project, they are saying they want to use the property taxes as collateral against borrowing the money to build the project. It would be no different than you or I borrowing money against our home or a car. How unlikely is it that the city would default on such a loan, this administration has limited the city involvement to $400,000.00 of edit money per year. On another blog, I calculated that if the YMCA only has half of what they say they can produce, it alone will bring in around $300,000.00 per month! Think of what that means for our city. Not only will people be spending money at the YMCA, but business downtown may gain a plus by the fact that Moms while waiting for the kids at the swim lessons, will walk around and shop. In fact, wouldn’t this be a great time to open a shop that sells swim wear, a shop that could supply swimming attire all year round, not just a few months our of the year!

    Yes! We need street repairs, we need drainage ditches dug, there are a lot of things this city needs, but we need to start moving forward, what is that word? PROGRESS! It is time the citizens of this city come together and work for the common good. It is time the elected officials start working together to better the community, to take that first step towards PROGRESS.

    I support Scribner Place, I refuse to hide behind the name anonymous, and I look forward to any and all of your comments!

    LET’SSSSS GET READDDDDY TO RUMMMMBLLLLE!!!!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 7:23 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • As a taxpayer we are learning we have a right to "question." And now it seems like certain elected officials in this town doesn't want to furnish the "TRUTH" or real answers to what we want to hear. This is not a Democrat or Republican problem. It's our problem. The majority of us are asking the same questions? As far as the malice attacks on Ms. Valla Ann Bolovschak. President Gayhan spent more than 5 minutes questioning why she needed 11.5 minutes to say what she wanted to say. And she sure gave us an Education on procedures. And gave her personal views. As well as she has a right to stand there and clarify her statements and ask the hard questions. No one I know in this town can say what she said, and cover her major points in less than 45 minutes. And have the impact she makes on people she represents. I personally agree and ask for an investigation. I say if you have nothing to hide why not open everything up to the people. Weither you agree with her or not she is asking the right questions. That's why certain people in New Albany are giving there own personal spin on her comments. I ask the question: Why would Ms. Bolovschak want to be Mayor to this Bankrupt City Mess? And yes I do believe she represents "Us so called little people." So I ask you why is this such a problem? (FOOT NOTE: This message was donated: FROM the Democrat Little People's Party in Support of Ms. Valla Ann Bolovschak.) Keep hitting them with the Real Facts. "AND GIVE THEM HELL FOR ALL OF US"

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:05 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • Were ready to "RUMBLE". May the "BEST WOMEN WIN" Go Valla Ann!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:13 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • "If I didn't think the city cared, or wasn't taking this seriously, there would be a 'for sale' sign in my yard."

    Valla Ann Bolovschak

    Tribune, June 22, 2004

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 8:21 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • Bluegill,

    The "city" meaning the city government, or the citizens comprising the city?

    By Blogger Ann, at 8:28 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • Concern Taxpayer said:

    I say if you have nothing to hide why not open everything up to the people.

    Including your identity? At least Valla Ann doesn't hide.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:40 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • I think that I heard Councilman Schmidt say that he had all of those folders of copies of the report in question made for the other 8 council members at his own expense. Thank you, Mr. Schmidt

    OK--Let us wait and see how long it takes for the other 8 Council members, including Pres. Gahan to
    step up to the plate and pay for copies of the future monthly expense reports.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:59 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • Annie,

    By "city", Valla Ann meant city government. This quote came soon after she accused CMs Coffey and Price of unlawfully entering her home. They claimed they were there to give her information about her railroad concerns. She claimed she was working with Mayor Garner and other city officials on the issue and didn't get any information from them. It wasn't clear to me if the quote above referenced the railroad issue or the investigation of the CMs but it was definitely aimed at city officials rather than citizens.

    The whole article is Here


    It's interesting that, less than six months prior to the "Jimmy, you work for me" rant, she expressed total confidence in the Garner administration. It's also interesting that Valla Ann supporters have attacked the New Albanian for having evolved his viewpoint (and publicly documented it) and yet don't seem at all concerned that their "champion" made an unexplained 180 degree turn in less time.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 11:35 AM, June 08, 2005  

  • OK--Let us wait and see how long it takes for the other 8 Council members, including Pres. Gahan to
    step up to the plate and pay for copies of the future monthly expense reports.

    This strikes at the heart of the "we don't have any information" campaign. CM Price, at one point during a council meeting, made yet another complaint about a lack of information. He was told that the information he wanted was available to him anytime. His defense was that somebody was supposed to make copies for him.

    It's this type of petty political posturing that holds hostage any hope for progress. The entire "no information" argument, as noted by anonymous above, seems predicated on who makes the copies, ie, if someone doesn't make copies and personally deliver them to you, then you "can't get any information".

    Making leadership judgements and challenges based on the ability to make or pay for a few copies is nothing but a distraction from real issues about which none of the "no information" brigade seem able to formulate any substantial initiatives or alternatives.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 12:06 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Lets look for a minute at a different point of view ... the what if's.

    What if those certain councilmembers have some verified truth in there remarks?

    What if what you perceive as truth is nothing more than an illusion to discount the verified truth?

    What if the truth were revealed? Would you believe it, or would still say it was political agenda?

    What is wrong with the questions that are being asked? Have you asked for their verified proof?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:11 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • bluegill,

    Perhaps you can enlighten me, I seem to remember CM Price remarking about the lack of forthcoming information, not his lack of information.

    It appears at that CM Price, Schmidt and Kochert are the only ones with any information.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:21 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Bluegill,

    I just reread this and would agree that in this context she means the city administration.

    Remember, though, that she is referring to a specific occurrence (a police report made as the result of a trespasser) rather than behavior in general.

    So it would not be reasonable to deduce from her comment that she indicated satisfaction with anything more than the response made to and attitude perceived regarding a single incident.

    By Blogger Ann, at 3:08 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Price complained that copies of financial statements were supposed to be distributed to the council and weren't. He was told the information was available to him at any time. He then claimed there is a statute that says the clerk is supposed to make copies for the council.

    Whether or not there is a statute, this is a simple matter that can be cleared up in a few minutes. The clerk can make copies or the council can go to the office and pick them up individually as time permits. As a citizen, I couldn't care less who makes the copies.

    Arguing over arcane procedural matters involving copy making doesn't constitute a conspiracy to withhold information. As noted by Laura above, Bill Schmidt asked for information and it was given to him.

    Based on other things Price has said, I hope for his sake that he doesn't have any information. Otherwise, I'd have to assume that he's mislead the public on purpose.

    While we're on the topic, why not hold Price, Schmidt and Kochert accountable for not informing the public?

    If they do have information as you suggest, shouldn't they be held to the same standard as the administration rather than be lauded as "courageous" as in Laura's post above?

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 3:18 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Instead of incessantly moaning about the manner or the substance or who sponsored it or what color it was or which month it happened or what the city administration or the City Council or the police or the neighborhood or your cousin or the dog catcher has done in the past, perhaps the most constructive thing to do is actually to advocate FOR something.

    Perhaps the residents in this town could work TOWARD a goal. The constant complaining (usually with less than half the facts)only ensures that no project will ever happen and that New Albany will remain in a malaise forever.

    If you don't have a good idea yourself, take one of the many available that you happen to like and offer to improve or support it!

    If you hate all the ideas and have none of your own, well, you have our sympathies.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:38 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Annie,

    Your comment about the context of a single incident was exactly my point. On a previous thread, concern taxpayer recently challenged the New Albanian about his previous negative comments about Mayor Garner. On this thread, CP praised Valla Ann, who has also expressed viewpoints in the past that seem incongruent with more recent statements.

    It would seem that holding Valla Ann to the same standard might be prudent.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 3:45 PM, June 08, 2005  

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    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:42 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:46 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 6:28 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • I have attended the last several Council meetings. And I never heard Valla Ann Bolovschak slander or call anyone a "CROOK". Legally you are no better than the rest of them that do slander this women. What are you all so afraid of? Other then she has the guts to stand there and ask questions? Or is it because she is a self made women? Or just because she is a "WOMEN." Again I say if there is smoke there is fire!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:32 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Speaking of guts, why is "legalbeagle" anonymous? At least Valla Ann doesn't hide behind a pseudonym when she stands up and asks questions.

    Do any of you know what courage is?

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 6:36 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • At least my wife didn't fall asleep at the last Council Meeting. I felt like I was being informed! She showed up and was not a coward. She took all of the cheap shots from the mayor-tribune and you all. I ask myself why? My wife says it is because she is a women!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:39 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Talk about a Witch Hunt? This City needs to be investigated. Fear tatics don't work no more. Taxpayers are paying attention to what she is saying. And the questions she ask! Again this Adminstration is nothing but Smoke and Mirror's. We support Valla Ann. And we are the Majority...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:50 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • I personally know "Concern Taxpayer." And it will be a cold day in hell before you know! And my wife and I have heard Ms. Valla Ann Bolovschak speak at Council Meetings,Sewer Board, and other meeting events. And I do like what she says and Questions asked. She wants the best for the people and Taxpayers of New Albany. So as my wife says-This is a wake up call for New Albany. A little advice I sure hope Concern Taxpayer never get's nothing on you!!! Great Footnotes: Concern TaxPayer. You make us Proud!

    By Blogger One voice, at 7:10 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Dan Coffey lied at the last City Council meeting. Making the statement "Taxpayers" can not talk to Denny Stroud? I have several times. And even talk to his Boss Charlie Pride. Wait tell July rolls around? Let's watch this Adminstration Really point fingers. If we can't afford code enforcement? People will not allow Bond money to be borrowed.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:18 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • WOW! the new albanian: Said something nice about Valla Ann? But again what is his agenda? Me and my buddies vote for the person not the party. And We Do Support- Valla Ann..

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:25 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Rick Carmickle: You have been in your darkroom to much. Scribner Place is not going to bring business to New Albany. Look at all the people from Louisville and Jeffersonville going to the boat. They just glide threw New Albany. And notice all the empty business shops. Let the YMCA pay for it all.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:32 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • In my opinion, or with my interpretation, I believe the contention CM Price & others have made is that information that is supposed to be provided to them is not being provided.
    Some say it's a simple matter of asking for it, or making copies for themselves.
    The issue apparently is, if information is being witheld, how in the world would anyone know what to ask for?
    The problem is, nothing is known about a particular subject until it hits the papers or is brought out by citizens questions.
    Otherwise, it takes a particular seasoned CM to question why a project, approved in past years, hasn't come to completion and where has the appropriated money gone?
    When citizens question their CM's, and the CM's are caught without answers, I'm sure it's frustrating.
    Monday's council session revealed that money appropriated for drainage repairs had been put back into the General Fund.
    When large transfers of funds like this happen, the Council should be notified.
    If it's just done on the books, how is a CM to know to ask for the info?

    By Blogger East Ender, at 7:35 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Emersonlive: So you think you could have done a better job than Ms. Valla Ann Bolovschak? And in less time? Wow I never heard them call your name to speak. It is alot easier to say you could have done it in less time. And better. But since you didn't speak we will never know the truth? But refreshing my memory few weeks ago. Jeff Gayhan allowed Mr. Carmickle more than 11.5 minutes. And one person signed 25 names. Whom he was speaking for? So how many people do you think Ms. Bolovschak is speaking for? I support her for an Investigation.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:46 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • You got Support in The City Valla Ann! Someone has to defend us.....

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:49 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Laura,

    Here's the reason the council wasn't notified:

    First, we learn that City Council neglected to re-authorize a special annual drainage fund for just such emergencies. Because the council committee in charge of drainage issues failed to exercise "leadership," residents have been inconvenienced for more than a week now.

    I expected Kochert to call for the resignation of that committee's chairman. One would think that a committee set up last year to manage drainage issues would have taken the time to introduce a routine measure to reauthorize the set-aside of money for drainage emergencies.

    But never mind. Kochert is the chairman of the committee responsible for drainage. It was his responsibility to seek reauthorization for an emergency fund.

    It's also noted that Kochert said they needed leadership to solve such problems.
    -from the volunteerhoosier blogspot

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 8:06 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:24 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • emersonlives: Valhalla Viper? shame,shame,shame,shame,shame,shame.All of you had better fear her. Jealous boys! She will not back down from a real fight. She is smarter than any of you all are. ding round 2-let's see where your standing after the smoke clears. If there is smoke there"s fire! We support her!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:21 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • bluegill Now were allowing you to question Valla Ann "Standards." You must have been out to long in the sun today. You sound like a conserative democrat. with a right wing agenda of what you think about Valla Ann. What has she ever done to you? Look how she fights for us little people. Guess this is over your head. So let's open the books and do some check/balance on this Adminstration. Let's all play by the rules. And follow the letter of the law. Instead of playing with the General fund? And every fund in this town.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:36 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • the new albanian So I'll ask the tough question. What is courage? My opioion is courage is to stand up and do the right thing. You have to fight for what you believe in. And it takes courage to believe in the injustices of this city. No matter what the cost and who it politically hurts. Courage is when you ask the tough questions and don't back down.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:46 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • I smell smoke comin from the 3rd floor. The famous Kay Garry words. I moved it but I can't rember wHere? Just print up to date info. Print it and send it to all concern citizens of New Albany. Give us a balance sheet. Give us facts. Convince us they are not lying to us? What does this Adminstration have to hide? No wonder were all pist over this!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:54 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Nah, thanks but no thanks; to me, courage is when we stand face to face, and not hide behind pseudonyms and aliases and anonymity. Only then do we see the true measure of one's upbringing.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 9:57 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Now there you go! You had to make it personal! While I freely put my name to note, you have to hide behind the name anonymous!

    In regards to my addressing the city council last month, President Gahan did not have to gavel me off the floor! I did receive the four minute warning and was able to complete my mission before the time limit expired.

    As far as one person writing 25 names, your information is incorrect! Twenty five individuals signed the intent to speak list, but the city clerk was informed well in advance of the start of the proceedings that only one person would actually speak for the entire group.

    And as far as the darkroom, I miss those days, but I haven’t been in a darkroom for years!

    And you’re right! (Yeah! Score one for the gipper!). The folks on there way to the boat are not going to stop downtown, did I say they would? No! I don’t think so! I said that citizens that use the facility may spend more time lingering downtown.

    So, again, get your facts straight, I did not slam, bitch slap, or just be plain rude in my comments, so why do you feel the need to.

    Come out from that shroud to anonymity and face me! You know who I am, let me know who you are! What is so great about this country is we can agree to disagree; I just like to know who it is I am disagreeing with!

    Laura, can I be any fairer than that!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 10:05 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • Is the real purpose of this blog to give one the ablility to point fingers at each other, and he said she said bullshit?

    Or is it a forum to communicate problems and conerns with out making them personal?

    I have only posted twice on this forum, and I never mentioned anyone by name, never pointed fingers at anyone! In fact my very first post was what I thought this blog was about, INFORMATION, to give and take! Not slam each other, disrespect each other!

    Over on the other blog, I posted an inaccuracy in regards to an individual, and when it was discovered that I indeed had made an error I appologized in that forum to that individual, but over here while that individual commented that I had appologized, a comment was made that I slammed him in the appology. I have reread my post, I said I am sorry, I was wrong, end of discussion, no slam was inteneded on my part! Or is having to say your sorry a slam?
    I guess I do not have a grasp on just what this blog is supposed to provide the citizens, I think it was started with good intentions on Ms. Laura's part, but somewhere something went wrong!

    I have no quarls with anyone public or private on this blog, again what is so great about this nation is we all have the freedom to speak or minds, and we also have the freedom to close them too!

    Laura, I think what your providing here is good, if the followers will use some courtesy and respect when posting!

    I left the third grade playground many years ago, I am do damn old to play some of the games posters here want to play. All I ask if your going to call me out by name have the decency to show yourself!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 10:55 PM, June 08, 2005  

  • As I have repeatedly admonished, this blog has rules. Rule #1 is:
    Be nice, or be gone. Rule #2 is: No personal slams or grudge games. I have tried to enforce these rules in a fair and equitable manner.
    You are correct that this blog was created for the sharing of information, and the ability to ask questions. Unfortunately, in New Albany, in order for this to happen, one must allow anonymity.
    Obviously, the anti-anonymity klan has done the majority of finger pointing and name calling. Somehow, in thier logic, anonymous commentators are less valid in their opinions.
    Indeed, us "little people", are over here dead set at "no progress at any price", because we are "flatearthers" who are "cowards" hiding behind anonymity just so we can be "liars"
    I am sorry that your 2 visits to this blog have been bad experiences. But, I think if you had been reading on a regular basis, you would know that courtesy and respect for others has been a well-discussed matter.
    Speak Out Loud NA is just what it says, a way to speak out about what you think without fear of retribution.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 2:50 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • Also, Valla Ann is owed an apology for the name calling done by emersonlives.
    Mr. Carmickle, do you see where the third grade antics are coming from?
    Disrespect and outright nastiness will not be tolerated here. Yet there are those who persist.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 2:59 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • east ender: Thank you for allowing the little people to have a say. Alot of people need to line up at be held accountiable for their att acks on Ms. Bolovschak. What she has done for New Albany people. Is bring to light the facts that even the Council is being misinformed-does not have all the facts and figures by this Adminstration. If The Indiana State Board of Accunts can't figure out and "QUESTIONS THINGS." That was a "BIG RED FLAG." But when Ms. Bolovschak get's up and questions procedures and quotes the laws and violations of this Adminstrations. She is accused: Motive of political gain,slander,witch hunt,her being called a liar, and being misquoted. She has more important things to do like running a very successful business. So I say they wonder why people believe and trust what she says. And this is why were so outraged with all these personal attacks on her. She has a Business and a Name in this town to be Proud Of.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:45 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • Bluegill,

    I'd like to respond to your last post, in which we were discussing the quote that you posted regarding Valla Ann. But this thread has gotten so off-track that after reading through it, I'm disgusted.

    I have some points to make, but I do not support or condone the name calling and slamming going on here (and I am referring not to Bluegill, but to several others).

    I'm surprised to see Rick Carmickle belittled. I don't know him personally, but I am aware that he is a long-time cheerleader for New Albany's downtown and an active merchant who's invested in the city.

    And what's with the Valhalla Viper business?

    C'mon folks! Let's get some meaningful dialogue going here!

    By Blogger Ann, at 8:10 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • Laura said:

    "You are correct that this blog was created for the sharing of information, and the ability to ask questions. Unfortunately, in New Albany, in order for this to happen, one must allow anonymity."

    In all the time we've been debating this viewpoint, never once has the question you asked been answered.

    Why, in New Albany (as opposed to other places?), "must" anonymity be allowed?

    Why is it that Valla Ann can be herself, I can be myself, Rick and Bluegill and Emerson be themselves (full names at their Blogger homepage) ... and all the politicians can be themselves, and yet when it comes to the "little people" (remember, this is Concern Taxpayer's description, not mine), they "must" be allowed anonymity.

    I ask yet again: What is everyone here so terrified of?

    Valla Ann and I both run businesses, and both businesses are successful. We happen to disagree on a few things, but neither of us would remotely entertain the possibility of being anonymous. Why aren't we scared?

    Why "must" anonymity be allowed?

    Anyone?

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:28 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • And one more thing: It was, and is, perfectly legitimate for Emerson to use "Valhalla Viper," which is the same literary license as referring to President Bush as "Dubya" or to me as "Beer Nazi."

    It is a caricature, and fully applicable to public figures. I understand that concepts like irony and satire don't always play well (after all, at one point, laughter was outlawed here, presumably because outraged taxpayers don't ever laugh), but that doesn't mean that Laura can legislate them out of existence.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:34 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • Laura, is it legal for me to answer the question posed by millerliteweightguys?

    Thanks.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:36 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • Annie,

    I'd like to continue the conversation as well. Quite frankly, though, I'd prefer to do it somewhere else.

    Laura is so ridiculously biased in her editing and admonishing of contributors that any sincere effort at discourse and information sharing seems terribly out of place here.

    Since I am interested in meaningful dialogue and am perfectly willing to be held accountable for my opinions, perhaps we could find a place more hospitable for such things. I have no problem with any conversation being published for public reading. Any suggestions?

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 8:38 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • New Albanian,

    You gotta admit, Beer Nazi and Dubya don't have the same "insult quality" as Valhalla Viper. I think it would be best to avoid the name-calling (not that I don't appreciate the sense of humor).

    Bluegill, if we can find a clean thread to further discuss, I'm all for it, but don't know where that would be.

    By Blogger Ann, at 9:04 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • Point taken. If it were me, I'd have stuck with "Valhalla" alone, as it is a clever play on words, and perhaps more in keeping with "Dubya."

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 9:25 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • All this talk about the Valhalla Viper comment…are the comments below not inappropriate?

    Legalbeagle accused others of being sexist: “Or is it because she is a self made women? Or just because she is a ‘WOMEN.’”

    Proud Democrat then joined in: “I ask myself why? My wife says it is because she is a women!”

    Then, New Albany Resident threatened everyone with action from Concern Taxpayer: “A little advice I sure hope Concern Taxpayer never get's nothing on you!!!”

    Sarcasm from Millerliteguys: “WOW! the new albanian: Said something nice about Valla Ann?”

    And a slam from Anonymous: “Rick Carmickle: You have been in your darkroom to much.” (This one is especially bad as Rick has posted a thoughtful commentary on the issue and has never been rude to anyone on this blog.)

    A threat, name calling, and put-down from N/A Homeowner: “All of you had better fear her. Jealous boys! She will not back down from a real fight. She is smarter than any of you all are.”

    More of the same from A-better N/A: “You must have been out to long in the sun today. You sound like a conserative democrat. with a right wing agenda of what you think about Valla Ann. What has she ever done to you? Look how she fights for us little people. Guess this is over your head.”

    By Blogger Karen Gillenwater, at 10:35 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • On making sexists remarks, seems like it is not a level playing field. Think about it.
    " When you look at the world,
    what is it that you see?"-Bono

    By Blogger edward parish, at 10:46 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • I'll get back to the real topic.

    Many people have said that the administration is witholding information. However, it was reported that at the meeting on June 6th, the Mayor said that “no access to the city’s books has been restricted, and a review at any time by any one, including the state, is welcomed…”

    I was not at the meeting. To those of you who were, did he, in fact, say this?

    If this is true, it seems to me that an invitation has been extended for any person to ask for this information (and I don't believe this would be the first invitation). There is a great difference between being denied information and simply not asking for it. As to whether it should automatically be supplied, I am sure that there is a plethora of information in the city offices, should a copy of every fact be distributed to the City Council and the public?

    By Blogger Karen Gillenwater, at 10:46 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • r. mutt,

    The topic that New Albanian and I were discussing was all name calling and belittling commentary. Valhalla Viper is just being used to illustrate a point. We are aware that this nickname is not the only one being slung around.

    My standpoint has always been that regardless of whom it's directed to, I don't think the sarcasm and name-calling serves any purpose other than to sidetrack the dialogue and insult posters.

    By Blogger Ann, at 11:00 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • Annie,

    I completely agree with you. I understand that you and New Albanian were using that instance as an example to illustrate the broader problem. Sorry I wasn’t clearer. I was just trying to add that there are a variety of distracting, rude methods being employed in addition to outright name calling—some of which are much more offensive to me.

    Thanks.

    By Blogger Karen Gillenwater, at 11:27 AM, June 09, 2005  

  • If! And this is a big stretch, the little people think they need their anonymity because they work either in the city-county building or work for the city, feel that anything they post could be used against them. THAT IS AGINST THE LAW!

    Retribution is illegal in any job; the law that protects whistleblowers protects employees from being fired, reduced pay status and many other job demotions.

    Someone has already said this but it bears repeating, what if our four fathers signed the Declaration of Independence as anonymous. The King of England would have laughed himself all the way to France!

    I look forward to reading these blogs, even this one I have been a lurker for a month before I felt an urge to post. I knew before hand what was happening, that is why I went well out of my way to make sure that I did not name names, point fingers at individuals, I guess just to prove one could post with out doing any of that, and still have meaningful dialogue.

    I am the first one to admit, if it wasn’t for spell check and a somewhat of a grammar checker that I would not be here. I don’t always write sentences in proper form, and I hated diagram sentences in the ninth grade, but wish today I would have paid more attention. So my words while they might not be in the right format, they are my words, how I feel, and I guess my opinion, everyone has one, some two or three!

    Thanks to Laura for what she has done, not being judgmental of grammar and spelling, but just letting us say our part.

    It is wonderful that something or someone has awoken this sleeping giant, if you can call New Albany that, and the people want changes! Just remember every November you get a chance to make changes, get everyone you know to get out and vote! I vote every election, not because I really give a hoot wins or looses, because I really do, but I vote for the right to complain! It is when I hear someone complaining about this official or that official I get mad when asked, did you vote? And 9 times out of 10 the answer is, No! I don’t vote! If you don’t vote you got no right to complain, if you did vote, complain like it is a badge on your sleeve!

    Thank you all for sharing your opinions and ideas, with a little work on everyone’s part we can utilize this avenue of information to make positive changes in New Albany, folks let us work together and not against each other! Let us prove to the elected officials that we are not sleepy little citizens that yawn and say “whatever!” Let’s let all officials know that we are watching, we are keeping notes and records, and sometime in the very near future they just may not win re-election. That “We the People” want a public servant that serves “We the People”

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 1:22 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • See I told you I wasn't very good at this, how many fore father did we have anyway!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 1:26 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • r. mutt,
    I would like to add information. Yes, the Mayor indeed said that any review of the city books, by anyone, including the State, is welcomed.
    As to insults and name calling that have been going around this blog, I will certainly take your remarks into consideration, as well everyone else's.
    The administration of the blog makes it my responsibility to act as editor. I will do so.
    I have tried to be clear as to the parameters I would like for this blog to operate within. Hence the name.
    This is a place for people to speak their minds, and exchange information on issues regarding city business.
    I believe people are defensive of Valla Ann because they see and hear that she is overtly trying to get to the bottom of the city's business.
    Meanwhile, others were just throwing around meaningless rudeness, and after many attempts at asking for decorum, the result was starting the deletions.

    rick,
    thanks for recognizing this blog as a place for the people to speak and refusing to get caught up in the name-calling that serves no purpose here.
    Unfortunately, the protections afforded by law are not necessarily protective of the persons quality of life at the workplace.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 4:16 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • So its OK if we're rude, disrespectful and threatening as long as we support Valla Ann?

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 4:31 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • Laura,

    Thanks for confirming the Mayor’s statements for me.

    Regarding the administration of the blog, it’s certainly not a straightforward task. I think that, as you mentioned, you have tried to be clear in stating your rules. But your choices on what is deleted or admonished as inappropriate are baffling to me. I posted a list of comments that I found to be particularly offensive, personal attacks, which were certainly unproductive to the discussion. Why were other posts deleted and not these?

    By Blogger Karen Gillenwater, at 4:46 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • Let me clarify before my post is misunderstood, as I've just realized it could be. I do not mean that you should have deleted those posts because I said they were offensive to me. I posted that list after other posts had been deleted. I would very much like to know your reasons for not deleting those posts at the time that you deleted the others.

    Thanks.

    By Blogger Karen Gillenwater, at 5:35 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • MY question is this. How can their be a Dialogue with several of you when: We don't agree on Scribner Place,The current Adminstration, And your constant "ATTACKS" on Ms. Valla Ann Bolovschak! This City is totally divided on these issues. And neither I Nor the many other people in New Albany will not ever agree with you all on these subjects-issues. But you need to know we will not back down. The taxpayers of New Albany will not allow our Property Taxes to be connected to Scribner Place. And we will continue to question this Adminstration. If the Council Members don't have all the facts. Why does anyone think we can believe your word,their word or even this Adminstration. Let alone these attacks on Ms. Bolovschak. In my business it is called a legal impass. So when you attack be prepared to get a reaction.. "Were Mad As Hell And Were Not Going To Take It Anymore."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:36 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • Legalbeagle You just open pandora's box. There chomping at the Computer to come after you. We totally agree. And support your comments.

    By Blogger One voice, at 10:46 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • As they say on the Chris Mathew's Program. "LET'S PLAY HARDBALL" Signed: Many-Many Taxpayers

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:52 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • Legalbeagle: Why, then is it acceptable for you to attack the Mayor, and not acceptable to attack his critic?

    Essentially, you're implying that there is nothing that can be said to change your mind, irrespective of any evidence offered.

    Please explain how this constitutes a dialogue

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 11:27 PM, June 09, 2005  

  • the new albanian I would like to respond to these statements. And ask my questions: (1) Why is it every Council Meeting for the last several month's. Citizens sit and listen to City Council members saying. We do not have that information? (2) Why themself do they sit there on tape and ask for Information and come back with the statments we were not aware of this? (3) Then the Council them self make statements which I have heard. Like we would have never voted for Raises if we would have known about the financial problems in New Albany? (4) We do not have those figures? And there is NO money, and start tabling most Projects.(5) When citizens of New Albany can get there hands on information that even the City Council is not aware of. (6) Council members repeatly say: We were not aware of this? Then the Mayor Garner says: (1) I don't know that answer? I'll have to get back with you with these figures? (2) I don't have those figures? We have the monies But--. (3) Were going to have to shut down departments with possiable lay-offs unless you give us $500,000.00 loan from the Sewer money. Do you Citizen's not wonder why the Sewer Board would not vote to borrow $500,000.00 ? (4) We passed ordiance for Code Enforcer. The money is set aside for this position in the General Fund. I ask were is the Code Enforcer?(5) The the attacks begin-Ms Valla Ann Bolovschak. Witch Hunt,Slander,It's political etc. etc. etc. Do I need to go any further in why the citizens do not feel they are not being Informed! Not being told the truth! And now Ms. Bolovschak ask for an Investigation! And everyone in this Adminstration "Screams F-O-U-L.." And the attacks begin!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:10 AM, June 10, 2005  

  • legalbeagle,

    How is it possible that certain council members can claim that they don't have access to information that, as you pointed out, is available to the public?

    I can get the information. You can get the information. Our neighbors can get it. Council members can't? That simply doesn't make any sense. And yet, you take that to suggest some sort of administration conspiracy.

    Why not simply ask the council members making these claims what steps they've taken to acquire information. When they've been repeatedly told that they can have information whenever they want it, what have they done other than continue their no information claims?

    You'll note that none of them has said that they asked a specific person for information and were told no, they can't have it. Didn't Bill Schmidt just report that he asked for information and it was given to him?

    What might motivate council members to say something that, even according to you, isn't true?

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 8:04 AM, June 10, 2005  

  • What would be the point of a dialogue between people who agree completely on everything? Aren't we here to have our opinions heard, get information, and consider the views of others to make informed decisions and act upon them?

    I guess I'm too idealistic.

    Please remember that we are all taxpayers and entitled to our own opinions.

    By Blogger Karen Gillenwater, at 8:30 AM, June 10, 2005  

  • Legalbeagle: Those are nice questions, but in none of it did you so much as attempt to answer the specific questions I asked of you.

    That won't get you very far in court, will it?

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:30 AM, June 10, 2005  

  • tim deatrick: Well shame on you! You use to brag about being her so called friend! You got your feelings hurt when you were caught in lie after lie. And you know it! Ms. Valla Ann Bolovschak is strickly a FACT person. And She is a "PROBLEM SOLVER". And does not attach any personal vandetta on anything she stands for. Or does! And You Know It! As you just learned the hardway "TIM" anyone who deals with her knows this. She not only wants facts but she demands truth. And she will search until she has the truth. And she bases her decisions on the whole truth and not 1/2 truth! Talk about loss of credibility Tim. You just loss alot after this "personal attack on Valla Ann." Political agenda? I ask you openly to answer this? After you calling her 15-20 times a day. How many of the times did she tell you as well as many others. She is not interested in being Mayor of this City! She has a Thriving Bed & Breakfast, and she devotes her time to building things.. And helping others. I personally hold you accountiable!... ARGH!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:12 PM, June 10, 2005  

  • I totally agree with these comments. Can't wait to see you "Tim" at next Council Meeting! How can you face anyone after what you just did? We Support Valla Ann!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:20 PM, June 10, 2005  

  • You need to put more effort towards your girlfriend at Hugh's Bar on Market. Then your own personal vandetta. But many like you are standing in line as an after thought when it comes down to a list of trusted people. Your outta your league "little Tim"...The name "Tim" does not set well for the people who do matter. We support Ms. Bolovschak. So Tim tell us your own personal agenda or spin on this. "You got caught."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:40 PM, June 10, 2005  

  • I think she has more than just a Effective Voice. she uses reasoning,fact,laws,ordiances.logic Plain down to earth words. And truth. We support her.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:56 PM, June 10, 2005  

  • Who are the people who matter?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:15 AM, June 11, 2005  

  • Tough crowd, Tim. First they love you, and then when you make the mistake of disagreeing with them, they pummel you from behind the safe veil of their anonymity.

    In such fashion, and unlike your own willingness to stand by your identity, their anonymity protects them not from some vague retribution (which none yet have been able to define coherently), but from accountability with regard to their own "opinions."

    Don't hold your breath waiting for the moderator to enforce the "attack" rule, although what she should do is elevate your comments v.v. Valla Ann to the marquee and open it up to all comers. That'd be a great dialogue for this blog, don't you think?

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 10:34 AM, June 11, 2005  

  • Tim, when i met you and Nova in the hallway one night after a meeting you were looking for help to get the mayor off track to stop the sports fac. Now what side are you on? first you play Vallann like a fittle lieing and what not...now you come here talk big and put your show on, you must be spending too much time with your drinking buddy yvonne, maybe even hittin the peace pipe alittle much.......you have some nerve!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:01 PM, June 11, 2005  

  • Wait a minute, I though Yvonne was on the same anti-administration side as Valla Ann. First Tim, and now this -- how are we progressives to keep track of the factions without a scorecard?

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 11:21 PM, June 11, 2005  

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