Speak Out Loud NA

Saturday, December 03, 2005

Sanitation Sub-Committee Findings (1)

A Council Sub-Committee was set up to examine the sanitation department regarding costs and expenditures. They were to make recommendations to be considered before final determination was made to dismantle the department and put 25-30 New Albany citizens out of work.
Let me first say that the following scenario is possible because a small group of folks who care, sat down and took a long look at the way the sanitation department is functioning, or rather malfunctioning, and made some important discoveries that could lead to better, more efficient, operations.
It is a classic case of reorganization and restructuring that any business must undergo from time to time in order to remain effective and viable.
Rather than throwing up hands and succumbing to “bankruptcy”, or failure to succeed due to mismanagement, these recommendations set a new course for success by eliminating unnecessary costs, and streamlining efficiency with a sensible approach to fixing the things that have, with time, become an ineffective way of conducting business.
The results of their work are contained in a written report that recommends a two-year transition of core points of operations within the department. If these recommendations are followed, the results would entail;
The employment of 32-35 living wage jobs, collectable payroll taxes on approximately $1 million annually, preserving city control of sanitation services, and a 2006 department surplus of approximately $34,000 dollars. This is in stark contrast to a 2005 estimated department deficit of more than $550,000 dollars.
More importantly, if the sub-committee’s recommendations are followed, in 2007 the department could produce $687,000 in profit revenue.
I submit that there are still additional considerations and opportunities, which could substantially impact the surplus in a positive nature. We will discuss these other opportunities at a later time. For now, let’s take a closer look at what the sub-committee came up with.
Right now, we are trucking refuse to a company known as Bi-Co, which is located in Louisville off Fern Valley Road. The cost for this procedure is $31.50 per ton, which includes a fee for the “transfer station”.
The recommendation is that the City would run it’s own transfer station, and then take a 36-yard “roll-off” trailer to the Clark-Floyd landfill at a cost of only $21.00 per ton. This change would produce a savings of $207,267 per year in dumping charges alone. It appears to me that they may not have calculated the fuel savings that will accompany this change, which we can assume will be substantial due to the enormous change in mileage. The fuel costs for 2005 were estimated at $59,322 dollars.
Another reorganization recommendation, which is a sore spot for many residents, is the issue of recycling. Currently, we are spending about $18,000 annually to dispose of recycle materials. Plus, there is another $2,000 in directly related expenses with the method we are using. However, there is a local vendor that would PAY US for an estimated $10,000 annually for commingled recyclables. It is recommended that at least one “Big Red” truck, with the separate bins, be used exclusively to pick up recycled materials every other week. This would maximize the usability and reduce wear and tear on these awful monsters, that will be our free and clear after one more year of payments.
For the benefit of persons who are not up to speed on the costs and payments for the "Big Red" trucks and the 96 gallon monster cans, let me catch you up on this bumbling of funds.
When the previous administration, Mayor Overton, decided to make these purchases, the Council approved payments to be made for the trucks out of Riverboat funds, and the cans were to be paid from EDIT dollars. Contrary to the Council edicts, these costs have been attributed to the Sanitation budget, and are included in the "budget shortfall" that Mayor Garner continues to espouse. The cans alone had a total cost of $589,525 dollars, and will not be paid for in full until 2007 when we make the final $121,000 installment. By the fall of 2006, the trucks will be paid in full. I am searching for the total costs of the trucks and will provide this number in a following comment.
This information is only the beginning. Part 2 will be posted soon, so stay tuned.
Thoughts anyone?

66 Comments:

  • Dear EastEnder,

    I enjoyed your posting. But could you make the City Council's Sub committee points alittle more clearer.

    I would make a bullet point paragraph so readers will understand the recommendations.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:27 PM, December 03, 2005  

  • As a citizen who has seen the numbers, and tried talking to Council about being able to cut Bi-Co out of the equation, etc., I simply believe they did not understand. Some did, some didn't.

    There is no logic, as far as I'm concerned, to privitizing sanitation. There is a way to make money with this utility, if the past mis-management, and bad judgments come to a screeching halt. As a citizen, I feel that if we privitize, it is simply throwing OUR GOOD MONEY after BAD.

    The Mayor knew all of this when he entered office. He was a Council member when the big red truck fiasco went down. It's not enough for me to hear him say that now, now, he can't get his hands around it. It must be that bad advice he gets.

    The only thing I would like to add is the fact that he was told up front, he would only be as successful as those he surrounded himself with. Doesn't that speak volumes, in and of itself?

    And, Legal Beagle, there is no money left in any of the pots. We can't even pay our gas bills, bond payments, etc. Do you feel they will give this town back to the citizens now that it is drained of funds? Just a thought, and a hopeful one at that.

    Good job on those numbers. Thanks. Our opinion.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:19 PM, December 03, 2005  

  • Maury -
    Since you couldn't even give me the common courtesy of answering the questions I posted on your blog, indeed you outright ignored me, I'm not quite sure how to respond to you, other than to express my profound disappointment in you.
    I was under the impression that we were friends and shared a certain level of mutual respect. Why could you not find it within yourself to recognize my inquiries?
    To add insult to injury, you then offer up a link to a VH posting that outright slandered my character and leveled false allegations against me.
    Now you're here with criticism?
    I am truly taken aback by your actions and shocked by your outward showing of disassociation.
    Despite your suggestions, we are doing just fine over here.
    Have a nice day.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 3:43 PM, December 03, 2005  

  • east ender,

    Tribune Article Sept. 21, 2003

    James Garner says:

    I will fix the city garbage and recycling programs. These are vital city services, for which we all pay and do not recieve the services we are charged for on our monthly bill. I will restructure and improve the garbage and recycling programs so they work in all neighborhoods of our city.

    Mayor Overton's plan included leasing five new trucks, which cost over $200,000 each.

    James Garner says: Due to poor planning we have not given our employees the tools to do there jobs correctly. The plan developed by Kevin Boehnlein stated we would save over $250,000 per year and it has not saved the city any money.

    Goes on to say Our professional sanitation workers now work 14 extra days a year because they must either work on holidays or Saturday of a holiday week. The maintence cost of these trucks are outrageous, a set of brakes cost $7,000 to $8,000.00.

    SO.. Mayor Garner what the hell have you been doing for the last 2 Years?

    You made us all kinds of promises
    and you sat on the very same Council and voted for all of these mistakes and continue with even more mistakes as Mayor!!!!!

    Your so called plan and easy way out is to Privatize Sanitation!

    You call yourself a "Leader."

    You Mr. Mayor should be the one loosing your job not the 29 Sanitation Workers.

    Happy Holidays

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:32 PM, December 03, 2005  

  • maury k. goldberg,

    You Mr. Goldberg was part of the problem with this mess that New Albany is in. So why not admit you was part of the problem and not part of the real solution now!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:39 PM, December 03, 2005  

  • Laura, it could be a troll...Maury's registered with blogger, but the post above has no hyperlink...just pointing that he might not even know the comment was made.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:47 PM, December 03, 2005  

  • The sub-committee report also outlines a plan to run regular sanitation pickups on a Monday thru Thursday week, leaving Fridays available to cover Holiday weeks, or other duties.
    This model would eliminate an estimated $65,000 in overtime pay per year, and will provide extra savings in fuel and wear & tear on the trucks.
    Another issue, pointed out by a CM would be to discontinue the City provided cell phones and return the department to a 2-way radio system, which is still utilized in addition to the cell phones.
    I will have to do some investigating into how many cell's are currently in use in the sanitation department.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 9:21 PM, December 03, 2005  

  • Has anyone done the math on the fuel costs for 2005?
    Consider this: There are 52 weeks in the year, and with 5 working days per week, that equals 260 days per year of garbage pickup (granted there are some Saturdays that could add to this number).
    Now, divide $59,322 by 260 days, and we wind up with $228.16 per day in fuel costs.
    With my interest peaked, I made a simple inquiry into the telephone costs for 2005 and was informed that the figure reported is $8,692. Divided by the 12 months in the year we are paying $724.33 per month in telephone fees.
    It is not clear if the cell phones are included in this cost, but I would hope that this is not simply general telephone expenses as it is an extrodinary number.
    I would have to agree that this is certainly an area where some dollars could be recovered.
    Some my say it's "nickles & dimes" but that's the way you accumulate dollars isn't it?
    I just think when it comes to something this important we shold be looking at everything.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:12 AM, December 04, 2005  

  • I was right...the first posting was by a troll, and Maury says he didn't do it...don't feel bad, it happens on the Internet all the time...when someone who is registered posts in this way, it's always a warning sign.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:50 AM, December 04, 2005  

  • I feel the Sanitation Workers only do what THEY ARE TOLD TO DO. Do you not feel management is to blame, not the guys sent? These guys can't take the trucks out without the supervisor, or assistant supervisor telling them so. Try and get a lid from the workers. You have to go through management, and that is not a fun game we played just getting a lid.

    The past Mayor, Assistant Mayor and some of Council created this mess with the big red trucks; but I feel the other stuff has been going on for a longer time.

    We still don't feel like it's the worker's fault. We feel it's the supervisors' fault. There is an old saying that goes something like this: You can fool the people you work FOR All the time; you can fool the people you work WITH some of the time; but you can't fool the people who work UNDER you NONE of the time, because they are picking up YOUR slack. I believe in that saying too. Course, that is our opinion, and may not be anyone's else. We realize that.

    Thanks for your blog sight. Boy, do we need something like this to echo, and echo.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:16 PM, December 04, 2005  

  • Tommorow's Council meeting will indeed be interesting. Lot's to talk about.
    More IMPORTANT information was recieved today, and will be put out here later tonight.
    Be sure to check back in the morning if we're too late for you tonight.
    Sanitation investigation has become quite interesting!
    As for the Maury comments, I'm leaving them up as a striking example of beligerant behavior by the ego-maniacs who consider themselves "intellectuals".
    I submit they are nothing more than vandals.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 8:35 PM, December 04, 2005  

  • east ender

    In reviewing of the City Council. Unlike Roger Baylor. I see it in 2 different factions supporters of The Mayor and his so called happy spending policies.

    Messer. Blevins, Crump, Gahan sometimes Seabrook who is the lone Republican on the other side.

    Your more fiscally conservative members are Kochert, Price, Schmidt, and Coffey..

    When know it all Roger Baylor claims these guys are the problem that in being the anti-progressive and also calls them four troublemakers.

    It has been noted Roger for the last 20+ Years Conservatives have been in the Minority on City Council.

    So I do say to you Sir... it's this ridiclious spending by the likes of your Mayor Garner, Messer, Gahan, and others. That have put New Albany where it is today.

    Also Roger who was the last true fiscally Conservative Mayor? You would have to say Former Mayor Bob Real 1988-1992.

    What you refuse to understand Sir is: Government continues to grow along with the waste all in the name of Progress..."And What a Waste."

    In closing Mr. Baylor one has to ask the question finacially where are we at now and how did we ever get to this point!


    jUST MY OPINION

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:27 PM, December 04, 2005  

  • It will be an interesting City Council meeting. I feel the Council is getting frustrated, and I don't think the Mayor is making any of their jobs any easier.

    Each of them will answer to their own constituents for their actions at election time. There are still lots of vocal people I know in this town we haven't even heard from yet. Some of the citizens are tired of fighting "City Hall" after HOW MANY YEARS? Literally others, who have fought the good fight, have gone to their graves with their secrets.

    Sleep tight, NA. We will all need our wits and our voices for Council tomorrow night, to SPEAK OUT LOUD. Our opinion (and we are looking forward to the additional information on sanitation). It smells, you know what I mean?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:09 AM, December 05, 2005  

  • Yeah, it smells all right. It flat out reaks with the stench of corruption.
    Folks, this goes way back, before Garner, before Overton, etc., it goes back far enough that people will say... "because that's just the way things are done."
    Like the Older New Albanian said, there are things that go on that just don't even look right. But, they go on just the same.
    Things that are so embedded in the "way things are done", that no one dares to challenge them, or to try to set them right again. Even when confronted with video taped evidence, it's brushed aside.
    When people start digging into the inner workings of long established practices, it becomes clear when one begins to encroach on territories that are sanctioned by the real powers that operate 'behind the scenes'.
    One finds themselves at this doorstep when, suddenly, there are no answers, there are no reasons, and there is no more information.
    One such issue that constantly pops up in minutes of meetings, in casual conversations, and in public records of inquiry, is the low rates being paid by the City's Housing Authority.
    Mayor Garner has said that he estimates that the City is losing as much as $100K anually on services to the NAHA properties alone. Their rates must increase.
    However, that's as far as it goes. It's never been fully analyzed, it's never been officially challenged, and no one has any good reason why. Strange? Yeah.
    That's a lot of money, and we would like some answers.
    Another strange phenomenon is the fact that we are hauling our trash all the way to Fern Valley Road in Louisville, to a company called Bi-Co, and that is costing us a whole lot of extra money.
    Why Bi-Co when the Clark-Floyd landfill is available practically in our back yard?
    The sub-committee report also found that nearly half of all the "trip tickets" to Bi-Co were from Street Department hauls of unusual, large items and special pick-ups that have nothing to do with the Sanitation Dept.
    Out of 5,906 trip tickets examined, only about 3,000 were related to sanitation collections. If these other 3,000 “waste” collection trips, done by the Street Dept., were outsourced and paid for out of the Street Department, this could save as much as $300,000 per year in charges now being assessed to Sanitation and paid to Bi-Co.
    This certainly seems to be a no-brainer, but have you heard anyone talking about it out loud?
    Could it be possible that things like this are what have truly brought the Sanitation Department to its collective knees?
    Are these conditions that can NOT be changed, so the whole operation must simply be abandoned?
    I doubt that we will ever really know, but it warrants consideration, and begs for answers. It's OUR money, and we deserve the truth.
    Next, we'll be looking at some interesting situations concerning some of the Sanitation Dept. employees/ex-employees/supervisors/
    assistant supervisors(?)/ City Council members/Street Dept. employees, and the Union's opinions of such.
    Stay tuned.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 2:37 AM, December 05, 2005  

  • WE SUPPORT THE SANITATION WORKERS

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:36 AM, December 05, 2005  

  • CT

    Are you a Democrat?

    If so, how?

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:32 AM, December 05, 2005  

  • *snort* garbage trucks dragging, I bet they got up to what, 30-35 mph in no less then 5 minutes?

    good lord.

    The whole incident about the sanitation department begging for gifts? Sounds like a prank to me, they are not destitute.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:19 AM, December 05, 2005  

  • It would be interesting to know who in the Mayor's Office or on the 3rd floor
    is writing the articles for
    "oldernewalbanian"?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:44 AM, December 05, 2005  

  • Everything that is positive for the administration on this blog is a conspiracy. Give me a break.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:53 PM, December 05, 2005  

  • Older New Albanian:

    I believe you. I believe you have even more stories outside of the sanitation issue. I don't doubt one of the guys could have asked if you had a Christmas present for them. I've been neglectful in doing that lately, but use to put something out at Christmas.

    I also agree with you about the effiency and how all of the trucks end up in your neighborhood on the same day. That definitely is management's fault, not the workers, I feel.

    The thing that bothers me about the Street Department picking up these large bulk items and it being charged back to Sanitation, is folks, we are SUPPOSE TO PAY a fee to have large items like a hot water heater picked up, etc. The LAW is on the books, so where is that money? I know it was being enforced under Overton. Is Garner enforcing it? The City Clerk will have to answer that one, seeing the Clerk's office issues the $10.00 orange tags for bulk items (or is it $20 bucks).

    This again makes it the Administration's, or Supervisor's, or Clerk's fault for not notifying someone of the law. Taxpayers should not be paying this two times -- or are they not enforcing the law, and that's why Sanitation is being hit? Daggone,
    I've got too many questions, too, and I have never got an answer to any of my questions for, gee, I don't know how long.
    Thanks for the info. Should be a good Council evening. Some people talk about how racous they can become, but when people show up they haven't even seen yet, some will get a rude awakening. There are some people in town who will just flat put it out there, and they don't care. This new Council of two years, some of them haven't seen anything yet. We hope they realize it's nothing personal.

    People have a right to ask the COUNCIL about the monies, that is the COUNCIL's JOB, and its OUR MONEY. NEXT?!?
    Thanks for the info, and again, this is only our opinion.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:07 PM, December 05, 2005  

  • hey $$$$$$$ are you advocating anarchy? sounds like it, i am sure the sgt. at arms can remove those who test the law so if you feel so inclined go for it and make their day

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:23 PM, December 05, 2005  

  • Trust me folks, the Older New Albanian is a real person.
    Isn't it remarkable that the things actually occurring in our city on a regular basis are soooo outwardly and blatantly twisted, that it's hard to imagine they are reality? They are!
    I personally know people who have been innocently "caught" too close to those 'behind the scene' powers.
    Some have suffered intimidation tactics and terroristic vandalism when they have tried to report violations of codes, ordinances, or even ethical behavior.
    There are obviously people in this town who are 'untouchable' when it comes to being held accountable.
    This mode of 'unaccountability' is rising up through the ranks of City operations and the results of such unaccountability are the faltering of departments we are now seeing.
    Indeed, much of this 'behind the scenes' activity has been occuring for decades. However, our current administration is apparently in way over their heads, with people who are not qualified for their positions, and they have not been able to keep things in check.
    Thus, rather than small, undiscernable cracks in the foundation, we now are looking into deep crators that have opened up and are swallowing whole City departments.
    Until we DEMAND accountability, the problems will continue, and we will continue to fall victim to these unseen forces that are at work "behind the scenes".

    By Blogger East Ender, at 2:58 PM, December 05, 2005  

  • the decision is in the hands of the board of works now, so why report a sub committee findings to anybody? the union has a bid so may the best bid win

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:28 PM, December 05, 2005  

  • You are welcome, Older New Albanian. All of it is absolutely true, but it hasn't happened to those yet that treat the situation in New Albany so lightly. It will, though, won't it?
    Glad they went ahead with the 2nd reading to increase tap-ins and going back to sewer board tomorrow (3:30) for amendments, for non-profits at the City Council Meeting tonight.
    Glad they didn't pass those salary hikes; glad it died on the floor for the lack of a second -- THANK YOU ALL, COUNCIL MEMBERS.
    Glad they mentioned the sewers and how the EPA & IDEM are happy about some things and some things they are not.
    Glad they mentioned they need to do all of this extra work that should have been in the original "PLAN", (where they swore to IDEM in Court they didn't need to fix these items in order to bring in the other lines). A rate hike for stupidity, again.
    Glad they came clean about the lawsuits, though there are really three now. ADM (think that's Arnold, Duggin & Meier) was the Plant Builder, we think. That's what the Potty Police must have been referring to about hoping it is not a "design flaw".
    Fox & Cotner suing us sure is interesting. We don't even know all of the specifics of that case.
    Georgetown possibly going to Lanesville, and us still being in Court with them is fascinating. How long has this been going on now? Since England's administration? The amount, $2,000,000.00 or more. Gee, there sure is money out there SOMEWHERE for ALL THOSE LAWYERS.
    Take care NA. Small victories tonight, savor them. Our opinion.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:35 PM, December 05, 2005  

  • Amen, East Ender. Preach it, sister. Take care. A Fan with an Opinion.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:41 PM, December 05, 2005  

  • Yeah, right. She was so busy preachin' to them that she walked out before the meeting was half over.

    That's representation. Well, whatever -- can't take the heat ...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:46 PM, December 05, 2005  

  • Laura, have they just ran out of things to talk about and raving their lunacy on your blog. Give me a break. Better yet, create your own blog and go blow there. OUR OPINION OF WHATEVER YOU THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:37 AM, December 06, 2005  

  • Hey, "D***A**", we are talking about her posting here, not her "preaching tonight". Please take a course in language comprehension. You may fail. Our opinions.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:39 AM, December 06, 2005  

  • new albanian

    money
    is
    money

    and

    waste
    is
    waste

    You ask..
    Am I a Democrat?

    Roger dodger you always try to make everything political!

    You should be asking if---I AM:
    A Republican or a Democrat?

    I'm a Concern Taxpayer
    So what is the difference?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:22 AM, December 06, 2005  

  • She was understandibly angry and upset.

    And consequently absent when the Rumpke question -- the one Laura raised in the first place -- was broached.

    Laura then missed the part where certain councilmen insinuated that SHE was the liar -- and I don't mean the left side of the table. Shirley, you heard it.

    Too bad. Laura's pro-sanitation statement was quite good, as were the bid explanations made by Mr. Thompson, et al.

    Shirley, you asked on NAC: "There were a lot of issues discussed last night. I think we should try to work together and get some of these matters resolved before going off of the deep end about one small comment."

    People here are fond of saying that nickels and dimes add up to dollars. In like fashion, a series of small lies add up to damaging whoppers.

    Your sincerity always has been appreciated. Working together obviously would be the best strategy. How, then, would you propose to encourage such unity?

    I understand that I'll get pelted for coming here and asking you this question, but it's genuine.

    By the way, we can leave Randy out of this one. I'm the one who wanted to speak after the fact - he signed up according to procedure, and I followed him to the podium.

    Shirley, in most ways you're right about that episode, and I apologized to Mr. Gahan afterward for showing him up.

    As for my Uncouncilman, well, perhaps it's just the way things have to be. He is opposed to what I stand for, and I'm opposed to what he stands for. It may not be possible to achieve consensus.

    Perhaps the 3rd District will have better luck next time.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 10:29 AM, December 06, 2005  

  • Shirley,

    Agreed on Habitat. That's why I think it's important for the council to implement a plan that would require and/or encourage a sewer tap in fee structure that favors organizations like Habitat and CHDO and redevelopment of lower income areas.

    Price and Coffey are against it. Are you satisfied with Price's "Frankfort Avenue" explanation as a valid enough reason to vote against supporting such a measure?

    If not, are you willing to say so?

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 11:22 AM, December 06, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 11:22 AM, December 06, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 11:22 AM, December 06, 2005  

  • Shirley, the gentleman from Habitat for Humanity is Ron Judd, and it was during his speaking time that CM Price bizarrely asked him to explain how sewer tap-in waivers for HH might be justified to an elderly man on a fixed income living on Culbertson Avenue.

    Apple and oranges … again. One has nothing to do with the other, but in the hands of CM Price, it comes out as a conspiracy against a poor old homeowner.

    Dan Coffey spends precious minutes espousing the idea that degraded housing should be rehabbed, but at the same time, he’s against the Linden Meadows project, the completion of which might lead to millions of dollars to … uh, rehab degraded houses, so many of which are in Coffey’s district. He continues to oppose investment in his district in the form of Scribner Place, not because there’s a valid argument to be made, but because, when it comes right down to it, he doesn’t like the sort of people who’d use it.

    CM Coffey defends vacant lots against the threat of in-fill development, calling them children’s playgrounds, while he opposes a real park (Cannon Sports) that would provide a place for all kids to play soccer. Perhaps this explains why his long tenure on the council, a time marked by incessant complaints about his district’s fate and few positive achievements to reverse the decline, is so grating to observe.

    What are we supposed to make of this? It has far less to do with income levels than it does with the personal animus of a man like Coffey toward the trappings and realities of the modern world.

    Shirley, as you know, my business is located on the north side. As is hinted hereabouts by the “old timers” like $$$$$$$, I’ve admittedly come late to this game, but since I’ve been in it, I’ve tried as best I can with the tools at my disposal to drum up support for the revitalization of downtown, reasoning that without a healthy core, there can’t be a healthy downtown residential area. This benefits people of all income levels, just as the Frankfort Avenue corridor’s rise has benefited all of Louisville. Does anyone seriously doubt the truth of this … other than CMs Coffey and Price?

    When CM Price dismisses all things Frankfort Avenue, he’s not only insulting the hard, relentless work of many people here, such as my friend Greg, who is about to open a restaurant of Frankfort Avenue caliber in downtown New Albany (and, yes, intending to serve my beers there), and will be bringing visitors and money to downtown.

    Price also is expressing (yet again) his utter incomprehension about the contemporary redevelopment factors that have been proven time and time again to be the ones best positioned to bring success to places like downtown New Albany. Rather than a councilman publicly acknowledging and taking pride in incomprehension, why not work instead to increase comprehension? And yet, as time passes, we see no indication of this on Price’s part. There are plenty of ways to learn, aren’t there? Read, listen, visit … has he tried any of them? Might he at least attempt an understanding of concepts like new urbanism and the creative class, without which we have little chance of making things better here?

    Shirley, to summarize, when you’re doing everything in your power to help in the best way you know how to help – as is the case with my encouraging business owners to look at New Albany, selling the city’s potential, spending hours trying to develop a product that I can sell downtown (bear in mind that if it were about money, I can sell the same beer for a greater profit margin at the pub than I can selling it to a bistro downtown, but at the bistro, it might give my friend an edge in the beginning owing to our good reputation) – and the councilman for my district consistently and abrasively acts as though to oppose these efforts, not on any coherent principle, but just because he can’t and won’t understand them – well, go on, tell me how you’d feel about that.

    I can speak only for myself. I’m willing to work with anyone, any time to make this better. Anyone here, even CT. Anyone here or anywhere else who doesn’t believe that is plain wrong. Shirley, if you can detect a way to bridge that gap in our respective viewpoints, I’m all ears. Let me know.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 12:07 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Shirley, all I can say is that very typically, between your expressions of sincerity, someone throws up an anonymous attack on Randy Smith -- who isn't the topic of the discussion.

    Please, Shirley, tell me: Why aren't you outraged by attacks like that? Why the selectivity?

    Why is it that to explicate inconsistencies practiced by elected officials becomes an attack?

    Let's go back to the first question. What, if anything, can we agree to agree on?

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 1:44 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • it should be clear from last nights council meeting that the followers of laura's conspiracy theory have no power and no impact.

    if your clown prince dan coffey is the best you can do then why not throw the towel in now? you are toast now have your coffey and cry me a river

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:48 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • To Shirley and New Albanian:

    Good discourse, fellows. Both of your have valid points.
    Who doesn't love Habitat for Humanity? We got our Christmas card from Jimmy and Roslynn Carter the other day. Luv 'em.
    Personally, I agree the tap-ins should be raised, and certain non-profits that provid low-income housing be exempt.
    We may wish to ASK Mr. Coffee and Mr. Price why they chose not to feel the way the New Albanian feels, rather than attacking them.
    It merits debate, but the debate will go down at 3:30 today on the third floor, at the sewer board meeting. We'll keep you posted on that one.
    Shirley, I know who you are; and I know who the New Albanian is. We also wish we could bridge the gap, because you be would REALLY SURPRISED how much we all want the SAME THING for our City.
    Maybe some of us use different words; maybe some of us are not as "intellectual" as some; but we are all in it together, it is all of our monies, and hope we all can keep doing what we do best.
    If you have a claim to fame for finances -- look at 'em. If you have a claim to fame for writing --write it. If you have a claim to fame for speaking -- speak it. If you have a claim to fame for searching out the truth -- search for it.
    We each need to do what we can all do to better this community; working together would be real nice.
    Not labeling people would be real nice, also.
    Enjoyed both of your debates. Keep up the good work.
    Thanks, our opinion, since you mentioned $$$$$$$. Again, thanks for that thought.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:50 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • P.S. You two, there was a map created a few years ago called the UEZ (Urban Enterprise Zone, administered by the State's Commerce Department and was funded by Inventory taxes, which no longer exist).
    This map included Historic Mansion row on Main Street as being a blighted area, ripe for redevelopment.
    Taxpayers fought that issue, and asked why that particular area is blighted. We were told it was to pick up an old business back on E 6th St, across the railroad tracks.

    Taxpayers asked why they couldn't just come down River Road and up 6th St and stop there with the map to keep historic Mansion Row delcared non-blighted, no answers would come.

    Past Administrations have done some strange planning for what they consider "blighted" areas (involving CDBG monies, Redevelopment monies, now CHDO looks like it's in trouble). If you see any improvements that happened, let us know.

    Redevelopment has been known to help low income elderly people and one story I heard involved an elderly lady needing a furnace. They put the furance UNDER her front porch, and I don't know if there was a lawsuit, or what, but it was because of the unlicensed people they were contracting out for redevelopment. Where does it end? How do we stop it? You tell me, we have been working on it for awhile. Need some help here. Thanks, but again, our opinion.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:01 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Shirley, I apologize if you think I was flippant. I truly did enjoy what you had to say, and agree. Thanks.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:04 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Many, many interesting comments here today, and I am anxious to join the discussions.
    Steve Price and Dan Coffey made some comments last night that warrant further discussions, but they do not deserve to be vilified and degraded.
    However, further comments will have to wait until later this evening, after I've finished my work.
    Shirley,
    You have made some very intellectual points and observations. I hope you'll be around this evening to continue the dialouge.
    Everyone, please continue to keep things on a positive note, and refrain from sliding down the slippery slope of insults and slander.
    This is the kind of discourse I have tried to encourage, and it's been a long time comin'. Let's continue to respect one another.
    ALL OF US!
    Thank you.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 3:18 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:24 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • The previous comment was deleted for a couple of reasons.
    #1 - It is out of context with the discussion that is occurring right now.
    #2 - It could be construed as exactly the kind of disrespect I just admonished.
    Although there was an interesting FACT in the comment, it was wrapped in accusations, and I just don't want this conversation to take that turn.
    PLEASE folks, keep it civil.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 4:02 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Thank you Laura for keeping them to the issues at hand on your blog.

    There are a couple of others in town that will be happy to listen to the BS.

    Thanks again for your hard work, and thanks for your information. We must be doing SOMETHING right:)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:33 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Shirley, Thanks for your most interesting comments. As for the comments that were deleted, thank you Laura for keeping it real and letting people discuss issues that are of most importance and informative to us all. We do have to continue to stick to the issues at hand. Good job folks with the exception of....well we all know who they are. For future nasty comments, IGNORE,IGNORE, IGNORE!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:19 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • I'd like to put my opinion in on this as well. I am for raising the tap in fees. And why is. As a new homeowner and a first time buyer.

    One I feel if it is new construction or a newly built business yes they should have to pay more a tap in fee.!!!

    We need to generate money. The builder or developer will just pass the cost onto the buyer. But even though they have all new pipes and sewer lines. etc. What are they connecting too?

    New Albany sewer lines. And many people do know that alot of the lines in New Albany are crumbling,leaking, and cracked etc.

    And New Albany's sewers lines and pipes in the mess they are in. We need to generate more money.

    Some of the older homes in New Albany to me that I looked at before I purchased my home. Is and was built better than new Patio homes or Newer homes being currently built.

    And one of my big concerns was the age of the sewer lines.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:25 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Price was talking about overcrowding. Many times developers put 3 homes on 2 lots with no off the street parking as required by zoning. Frankfort avenue was merly a statement of how overcrowding in residential areas such as Baxter, Frankfort can take place. If you would have listened East Spring Street Association has in the past opposed duplexes on Market Street without any off the street parking. Tell the whole story and you would have more credibility.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:35 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Roger's just mad because he is in the minority.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:39 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Shirley - I was not trying to bait you into an argument.

    Glad you dropped in at NAC today. You're always welcome.

    That's all.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:43 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • I usually don't blogg, for reasons I will keep to myself. But lately I have felt compelled to read the thoughts that are in the minds of New Albany residents.

    During this administration I have watched several people change sides. It's as if certain people have a "double standard". I'm not singling anyone out, but I atteneded several East Spring meetings when Mr. Price was assisting them in resolving their issue with the car lot and when they took a stand against a duplex that was being proposed. But, last night when he made a reference to Frankfort Avenue being closely laid out, these certain people were waiting to attack him.

    So, I guess Mr. Price was ok when he shared your issue for the moment, but when he made a reference to something you disagree about he is now in the wrong.

    I am just a single taxpayer in a city of many, and I'm sure my thoughts are shared by some and disagreed with by others. But which ever side you happen to be on, take a look at the this administration as a whole and see how many "double standards" you can find.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:03 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • coffey is a joke, maybe when the avg. IQ increases in his district he will be an ex-councilman

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:57 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE. :)

    Too many double standards in this town. We know, and hopefully can come together and put all the pieces together to put this thing to bed. Thanks, and we share your opinion!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:37 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • Laura admired how Garner's "muletrain" tried to take you out last night, and are still bastardizing you and Price today. Our famiy think these people are wet behind the ears and work for Garner, thus the term will now be used for them by our family as Garner's "muletrain". Like it? Feel free to use it, that way no names are personally mentioned, but we ALL know whom we are talking about. Our opinions.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:43 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • she left of her own accord so how did they try to "take her out" Just like a spoiled child , dont get her way so go home and cry and in her case rant blog

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:46 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • IGNORE! IGNORE! IGNORE!
    "Salem Witch Hunt"

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:21 PM, December 06, 2005  

  • timmy leave laura alone. go home and play with your jacks. when u get a real job and pay taxes u can come back and play.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:28 AM, December 07, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 10:09 AM, December 07, 2005  

  • The whole idea of being on one person's side or the other's is counterproductive and is exactly what has led to many of the negative situations we're in now.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 10:46 AM, December 07, 2005  

  • Anonymous said ...

    Roger's just mad because he is in the minority.

    Thanks for the chuckle. I've been in one minority or another for most of my life, and it's never bothered me.

    500 years ago, the majority thought the earth was flat -- and they were mistaken.

    150 years ago the majority thought that African-Americans were sub-human apes -- and they were mistaken.

    Last year, the majority thought that George W. Bush was right -- and they were mistaken.

    If I knew which "minority" anonymous was making reference to, I might expand the analogy even further.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 1:37 PM, December 07, 2005  

  • New Albananian, geez, another point we agree upon. We seem to be in the minority most of the time ourselves, too! And weren't they wrong about GWB. We do agree on a lot of things, from E Spring St's view, to yours and others.

    Tonight, I'll drink a brewski to that. As sick as I am, I am just have a schot of schopz and some ice water. Good exchange going on here. Postive. Enjoyed your comments Shirley. Surely we can get there if we just unite, we are all in it together -- whether we LIKE it or NOT...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:55 PM, December 07, 2005  

  • Anonymous 4:04

    Garner in 2007.
    You have got to be kidding!

    Have most of you forgotten that Garner sat on the city council for 4 years? And look what all he has "screwed" up big time so far.

    I like many folks who blog here. Are still waiting for someone to tell us what has he done for the Citizens of New Albany.

    He has broken almost every promise he made to us. I would truly like to know if Baylor and Smith and gang has actually went and put out money for printing cost to see the real facts on this adminstration!!!

    The mismanagement and government waste etc. Wait til the 2004 report comes out in January.

    I truly think most people will not accept blind faith judgement by Jimmy. Seems to me with each decision he makes he becomes more and more like Overton!

    Again I say why does he not want an audit?
    And what does he have to hide!

    Hell Dan Coffey could beat him right now in a Primary. And I am not in agreement all the time with alot of Dan's ideas. But Jimmy continues to make one mistake after another!

    My question is: Can anyone tell me the difference between Garner and Overton Adminstration...

    I sure hope he has a business left to go to when he is not re-elected.

    And Anonymous 4:04 get ready for "CAMP DAVID" AT 600 E. Main St.

    CUZ THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NO ONE TO BEAT HER!!

    Your the small unrealistic person.

    It happen before and watch and see what the Democrats will do again....
    Dougie never thought Regina could beat him. But she did...

    Politics 101
    Concern Taxpayer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:11 PM, December 07, 2005  

  • Laura,

    Do you realize that comments like the one above, anonymously posted, are undoubtedly not from Garner supporters, much less from any of the progressive faction?

    "right on garner in '07, you aint got nobody little ones"

    Speaking for myself, all the membership of the CFP, and practically anyone I have ever conversed with, we don't speak that way and we don't think that way.

    I'll give you enough credit to believe that you sincerely think the ongoing belittlement and provocation from this poster is coming from our side of the fence. It is not.

    As a student of politics and community dynamics, I'm firmly convinced that this (these?) anonymous posters know exactly what they are doing. This is the insult to your intelligence, to think that you would not catch on to this, to me, obvious provocation.

    It only serves to anger you and your posters. While there may be some disturbed individual out there who holds you and your readers in contempt, I believe the real contempt shown is to think you are so blinded by your opposition to one man that you would believe anyone who supports him would so regularly "flip you off."

    It is extremely likely that this is a sophomoric attempt to enrage and stir the pot and to harden the views of your readers against those who may well share your larger goal of cleaning up New Albany.

    I may be wrong. You might endorse and encourage these provocations yourself. It CAN be an effective tool to keep a political army motivated. If it is your doing, or that of your compatriots, I hope your other readers don't fall for it.

    Whatever bite, whatever criticism is part of VH or NAC, and however unfair you may think it to be, you have to admit that these types of postings bear no resemblance to the way we write, the way we talk, or the way we think. It's somebody on your side (or rather, against Garner and against progressive thought - someone who wants New Albany to stay in the muck and mire, for personal advantage, no doubt) who is trying to manipulate you, cheering you on, and keeping you bitter and angry at supposed demons.

    By Blogger All4Word, at 5:17 PM, December 07, 2005  

  • C T , you may have sitched to other party, ain't that yur opinion? Camp David at 600 East Block of Main ain't where we are planning on or going too.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:45 PM, December 07, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:49 PM, December 07, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:24 PM, December 07, 2005  

  • Alright people.
    Here's the deal. I have been away all day today trying to get into a little Christmas spirit. I never expected to come back and find Political campaigning going on.
    Let me address a few things.
    First, and foremost, this blog will NOT become a political campaign forum for ANYONE.
    I have made tis point very clear in the past, and I will not give it any more space from here on out.
    For, or against, it is not our purpose to "campaign".
    So, whoever is posting these remarks about who's going to win in '07, cut it out.
    If you don't, I will. By deleting.
    This blog is solely for the purpose of discussing the issues that are causing the breakdown of our community, its infrastructure, and the future possibilities.
    Even though I am obviously not a fan of the Garner administration, it is only because I have seen too many things go wrong, too many appointments out of 'favortism' with people who are not qualified, and poor, poor, poor, fiscal management.
    Still, this doesn't mean I'm going to run a blog for others to campaign against him.
    We must make changes, raise awareness, and demand improvements NOW. We cannot afford to wait for '07 to arrive and naively believe some miricle will occur and all will be set right again.
    Work must begin right now to bring this town back in a unified effort to accomplish one thing: a better New Albany.
    This goes for everyone. We are asking you to please leave the politics out of it. It's a dirty little game, and I don't want any part of it.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 11:43 PM, December 07, 2005  

  • Thanks Laura, We appreciate it. If you want a political blog, create one. We have enough issues on our plate, don't need this.

    Thanks,

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:57 AM, December 08, 2005  

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