Council Meeting
At 6:30 PM Thursday night the bond attorneys will be speaking about the YMCA/Scribner project bonds before the council meeting.
I don't believe they will allow public comments or discussion, but eyes upon them may help to bolster the resistance to allow property taxes as a backup mechanism.
Anyone out there who might have information about what else is on the agenda, please let us know.
Despite making multiple requests that one representative from each Neighborhood Asssociation be sent advance copies of the pending agendas for the Council meetings and Redevelopment Commission meetings, it just isn't going to happen.
Also, a reminder that the Board of Public Works (which usually meets Tuesday Mornings) is holding a special evening meeting, from 6:00-8:00PM, next Wednesday night at the Calumet Club - 1614 East Spring St.
I believe the East Spring Street Neighborhood Assoc. set this up, and it's a welcomed chance for folks who work the regular day shift jobs to be able to attend a meeting of one of the most functionally important Boards this city has. So, thanks to ESNA for creating an opportunity.
posted by East Ender at
6:55 PM
89 Comments:
This makes no sense to me.
If the city is going to borrow money for Scribner Place they will have to pay it back one way or the other.
Using property taxes to back the bonds is like taking out a loan with collateral which has a lower interest rate.
If we don't want to pay more taxes isn't it a good idea for the city to save money by taking a loan with a lower interest rate?
It would be like taking out a personal loan instead of a mortgage to buy a house because you don't want to have a mortgage against your house.
You could pay the higher interest rate on the personal loan but in the end if you don't pay the bank will come after you and attach your assets.
So haven't you just been paying more money than you have to and what have you gained?
By
Anonymous, at 9:52 PM, June 15, 2005
AGENDA:The sewage Revenue Bonds Series 2002.Resolution to Purchase Truck for Animal Shelter, RESOLUTION: To repay Sewer Fund for Payment to Team Contracting Regarding Clark Street.On Agenda tomorrow night.
By
Anonymous, at 12:08 AM, June 16, 2005
Thanks for the details everyone. I hope both meetings turn out well for all concerned.
I understand the argument of lower interest rates, and I understand that the city can get better loan deals than the YMCA. What I don't understand is just what are the other 2 options (total of 3) for the financing that I keep hearing about?
By
East Ender, at 1:22 AM, June 16, 2005
THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CIVIL CITY OF NEW ALBANY, INDIANA, WILL HOLD A REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING IN THE THIRD FLOOR ASSEMBLY ROOM OF THE CITY/COUNTY BUILDING ON THURSDAY, JUNE 16, 2005 AT 7:30 P.M.
AGENDA
CALL TO ORDER:
PRAYER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE:
ROLL CALL:
APPROVAL OR CORRECTION OF THE FOLLOWING MINUTES:
Common Council Minutes of May 19, 2005.
COMMUNICATIONS – PUBLIC:
COMMUNICATIONS – CITY OFFICIALS:
COMMUNICATIONS – MAYOR:
APPOINTMENTS:
APPROVAL OF CF-1 FORMS:
Kempco Food (tenant) Accent Marketing (tenant) and Koetter Development (landlord),Compliance with Statement
of Benefits, Referencing R-03-16
Hitachi Cable Indiana, Inc., Compliance with Statement
Of Benefits, Referencing R-97-10, R-97-11,
Flint Ink North America Corporation, Compliance with
Statement of Benefits, Referencing R-99-36
Sunnyview, LLC, Compliance with Statement of
Benefits, Referencing R-01-09
INTRODUCTION OF ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS: READING
R-05-11 Resolution Concerning Statement of Benefits Price
For Mitchell Veneer Inc. by the common Council of the
City of New Albany
R-05-12 A Resolution by the City of New Albany, Indiana Kochert
Authorizing the Expenditure of Excess Proceeds of
The Sewage Works Revenue Bonds, Series 2002
R-05-13 Additional Appropriation Resolution Schmidt
R-05-14 Resolution to Purchase Truck for Animal Shelter Messer
R-05-15 Resolution to Purchase Fire Retardant Suits for Police Coffey
Department’s Narcotic Squad
R-05-16 Resolution To Repay Sewer Fund for Payment to Seabrook
Team Contracting Regarding Clark Street
A-05-19 An Ordinance Amending Ordinance No. A-04-56 Messer 2&3
Salaries for the Year 2005 for Non-Bargaining Unit
Employees
Z-05-11 Ordinance Amending the Code of Ordinances of New Crump 2&3
Albany, Indiana, Title XV, Chapter 156 (Docket
P-08-05: Wendell Lynn & Kathy A. Willham)
Z-05-12 Ordinance Amending the Code of Ordinances of New Crump 2&3
Albany, Indiana, Title XV, Chapter 156 (Docket
P-09-05: Mure de Ronce)
Z-05-13 Ordinance Amending the Code of Ordinances of New Crump 2&3
Albany, Indiana, Title XV, Chapter 156 (Docket
P-10-05: Reflection Ridge)
Z-05-14 Ordinance Amending the Code of Ordinances of New Crump 2&3
Albany, Indiana, Title XV, Chapter 156 (Docket
P-11-05: Scribner Place)
Z-05-06 Ordinance Amending the Code of Ordinances of New Crump 3
Albany, Indiana, Title XV, Chapter 156 (Docket
P-1-05: Wright Woods, LLC)
TABLED ORDINANCES:
A-05-13 To Amend Ordinance A-04-56 An Ordinance Seabrook Setting Salaries for the Year 2005 for Non-bargaining
Unit Employees of the City of New Albany, Indiana
A-05-07 An Ordinance to Amend Ordinance No. A-04-56 Kochert
Setting Salaries for Non-Union Employees for
2005 (H.R. & Benefits)
G-04-17 An Ordinance Amending Ordinance No. A-04-07 Messer
G-04-21 An Ordinance Amending Ordinance Chapter 150: Messer
Building Regulations
A-05-09 Additional Appropriation (police cars) Price
A-05-10 Additional Appropriation (garbage packers) Messer
INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES WHO MAY REQUIRE SPECIAL ASSISTANCE TO ATTEND THE ABOVE MENTIONED MEETINGS MAY MAKE THEIR REQUEST KNOWN BY CONTACTING THE CITY CLERK IN ROOM 332 OF THE CITY/COUNTY BUILDING OR BY CALLING 948-5336.
By
Anonymous, at 9:19 AM, June 16, 2005
Gee, I wonder if that came from the clerk's web site where council meeting agendas are always available to the public?
Request after request, and they just won't give us information.
By
Anonymous, at 10:56 AM, June 16, 2005
Your pal is at in again:
http://cityofnewalbany.blogspot.com/2005/06/city-council-tonight-but-first-few.html
By
Anonymous, at 10:58 AM, June 16, 2005
I found it, but anonymous got here first.
Its at
http://www.newalbany.in.gov/Clerk/City%20Council/
Thats the clerks page.
By
Anonymous, at 11:00 AM, June 16, 2005
I hope they vote against Scribner Place tonight, we used to go to Huber for recaps and I just hate to see it gpone.
By
Anonymous, at 11:01 AM, June 16, 2005
You mean Double Seven!
Huber is now where Scuzzale Bus parks!
By
Anonymous, at 11:28 AM, June 16, 2005
While we are in a bulldozing mood, why dont we just gut the whole damn block, Southside, Scribner House, to hell with it all!
By
Anonymous, at 11:31 AM, June 16, 2005
Oh, thats right.
Never mind.
By
Anonymous, at 1:12 PM, June 16, 2005
Why don't we solve two problems at once. Louisville is looking for a location for the new basketball arena and we want to revitalize our downtown.
Solution: sell downtown NA to Louisville for let's say $10,000,000 or $20,000,000 (whatever we can get).
They have a place for their arena and we have a new downtown without all the boarded up stores AND have enough money to build Scribner Place.
By
Anonymous, at 4:19 PM, June 16, 2005
Steve Price's lack of political courage tonight was nothing short of astounding.
By
Anonymous, at 9:25 PM, June 16, 2005
Was a biotech park in your economic development plan, Tim? Was that plan published, or is there someone else's plan that I could look at that would have details about your plan?
By
Anonymous, at 12:05 AM, June 17, 2005
Of course, Bloomington does have a world class university with a world class research operation. And, Bloomington has a vibrant, active downtown. AND, where have other bio-tech businesses in Bloomington located? In a downtown building renovated with city and private foundation support. But, lets not let the details get in the way of a good story. It makes people cranky and censorious.
Shockingly, Tim does make a good point. We should be doing more to build biotech industries here. We should work with those people in Louisville who are seeking to attract biotech jobs to the region.
We should also be improving our quality of life to attract those new-technology workers, too. Scribner Place is a good start, and a great investment in our future.
By
Anonymous, at 12:17 AM, June 17, 2005
The YMCA/Scribner project is a boat that has already left the dock. Let's all hope it works out as well as some are predicting.
Speaking of boats...
An opportunity squandered several years ago left this city with nothing but the fumes of the 1000's of cars (and people in them)that blow by us every day on their way to the Caesar's Riverboat.
Don't get me wrong, Caesar's has been very generous to many projectds and organizations in multiple surrounding counties.
I voted YES for that thing every time it was put on a ballot (to no avail).
By saying we were left with nothing but the fumes, I am speaking in terms of not capitalizing on the traffic flow (consumer base) that currently has no reason to stop in New Albany.
I am all for progress and growth, but controlled progress and smart growth.
Think any of those folks will stop for a qwick workout at the "Y"?
By
East Ender, at 2:04 AM, June 17, 2005
My own observation of last nights City Council Meeting: Susan Johnson hit The City Of New Albany between the eyes tonight! What I would personally say to Susan- "YOU GO GIRL" That was to me the high lite of the meeting! Talk about hitting a Home Run for The Taxpayers!! She sure hit this City with truth... So here is our choices. Raw sewage in the yards,basements,homes. We have and continue to violate EPA. There will be no sewer credits. We need more repairs to our New Albany Sewers. Mayor is banking on County stepping in on Scribner Place.(County-Will Not ever let that happen) It has been in the making over 3 years to move the whole 1st floor out of the City County Building. We have Dan The Man's Plan.(Caesars money and YMCA leave the City Of New Albany out of it) We have The Garner Plan? (Back the Bond loan with Property Taxes pay lower interest rate)or pay higher interest rate and leave Property Taxes out of it. Then we have the Kojak attack on Steve Price! If that would have been another person whom many of us "RESPECT".. New Albany's Best Business Women. Defender for Truth and The Little People. They would be screaming Political Agenda! Also it was established tonight "KOJAK" has property in several Councilmen & Mrs. Crumps area. So I guess that qualifies him some clout? Or should I say The Band of Brothers of New Albany. We all know who you are! You all are the Voice oF James Garner and his Adminstration! And that includes "Your Blogs" but that's ok. You under estimate the Power of the little People! I personally was not Impressed. I listen to the arguement between Crump and Price. Crump states it will not raise Property Taxes. And Steve Price does not agree to co-sign for the "Millions of Dollar's Bond Loan." Then we had the great debate over Crumps daughter working at the Caesars 6 years. So is the Taxpayers suppose to be impressed? And Price told how he knew employees having there hours cut? Kojak says he doesn't care were the boat goes? I do have to say I was very Impressed with Steve Price's idea. Let's let the voters of New Albany decide! But we all know that will never happen! So it truly seems to me there is a line drawn in the sand of New Albany. As a "HOMEOWNER" I side with Susan Johnson! I would want raw sewage resolved before I would ever "Support Scribner Place." I truly agree with Dan Coffey's plan. Let Caesars and the YMCA build it and pay for it. And leave The citizens and Parks Dept. of New Albany out of Scribner Place. And let them build the so called "FIELD OF DREAMS FOR NEW ALBANY!" This was Overton's Dream. Now let's see what kind of SPIN this Adminstration has, or the Supporters of Scribner Place.
By
Anonymous, at 2:34 AM, June 17, 2005
That was longer than some of bluegill's posts.
By
Anonymous, at 7:36 AM, June 17, 2005
...not to mention inaccurate. I suppose one has to understand language before using it for some constructive purpose.
Maybe wet nurse should learn some "RESPECT".
By
Anonymous, at 7:45 AM, June 17, 2005
Q: How many property owners are represented by several CMs?
A: All of them.
Smashingly, Watson has agreed to foot the bill for a "for sale" sign for the "HOMEOWNER" above.
By
Anonymous, at 7:58 AM, June 17, 2005
Ms. Johnson brought up some very interesting facts, and if you were listening, CM Kochert reputed everyone of them! In fact he addressed each and everyone of the issues she presented. It was apparent that she was fustrated when she kept repeating herself.
Was CM Blevins MIA a vote against the Kensizg Road development? No fireworks between CM Coffey and Attny. Kraft! CM Coffey got what he wanted, the whole thing to start over, only this next time the project will be even more grotesque!
AND, it appears that everyone has resigned them selves that Scribner Place is going to happen, as one CM said, "We just have to figure out how to fund it!" The three options were explained in great detail last night, in fact in such terms that the simplest of creatures would be able to understand. Using the property taxes as leverage against the bond, does seem the smartest route, but then again, it appears the polticians of this community are not known for taking the smartest route. So, lets not use property taxes to build Scribner Place, lets use option three, borrow more money, spend more money on the loan intrest! Then it truly becomes a win-win situation!
Someone, suggested last night that along with the Coffey Plan, let the YMCA take over the Sanatation Department as well!
My big question of the night was to Tony Toran, "Who do you have to know in this building to get paper towels in the mens room!"
Due to the Fourth of July being on the first Monday, any one have an idea of when the next regular scheduled meeting of the council may be?
By
Rick Carmickle, at 8:19 AM, June 17, 2005
I agree. I think everybody against Scribner Place should move to prove his or her point. Considering how honor bound all the little minds are, it hardly seems prudent for them to take advantage of fruits from the labor of others.
I guess that fits well with the Republican agenda, though. I mean, Laura doesn't feel guilty at all about treating the little minds like lab rats for her sociology experiment, no matter how badly it embarrasses them. I guess it's not mistreatment if the human subjects are too dumb to realize it and the lab attendant profits.
By
Anonymous, at 8:20 AM, June 17, 2005
Jake, you're one perceptive guy.
By
Anonymous, at 8:25 AM, June 17, 2005
Shirley, we built this nation with raw sewage in our yards, back when people didn't look for excuses to fail, but looked for reasons to succeed.
All we hear is how we can't. I'll bet many of you here faced problems raising families and sending kids to school, and you never said you couldn't; you went out and did it.
Why can't we as a city have this same spirit of success? What we have now is this gloomy culture of failure.
By
Anonymous, at 9:23 AM, June 17, 2005
Jake, who do you consider a lab rat? If you are talking about anyone who is not one of the Band of Brothers then I guess I am one.
Just because a person is not wealthy does not make them stupid. When people talk about the "little people" they are not talking about short people or people with a lower IQ. They are talking about the majority of the citizens of NA who do not attend the council meetings but they do read the newspaper. We "little people" need to get the word out that we are being bulldozed by a portion of the citizenary.
I support Mr. Price and his idea to put the Scribner Place project to a vote and let all of the citizens of NA to have a say in what happens to their city and their tax dollars.
By
Anonymous, at 9:26 AM, June 17, 2005
As a long time resident of New Albany and proud of our City of New Albany, I cannot believe the way that some people are
using this public forum to critize and trash other citizens. This is the land
of the FREE and all citizens should be allowed to voice opinions without the
trashy criticism.
This trashy criticism is causing me to
wonder about the quality of the people
who are supporting Scribner Place so
vehemently. Do you have a personal
hidden agenda for pushing Scribner Place?
By
Anonymous, at 9:34 AM, June 17, 2005
No one wants raw sewage in their yards.
No one wants to pay higher property taxes.
No one wants crime in the streets.
But ... there is no reason to link these things with development on other fronts.
What is the hidden agenda of those who keep insisting that property taxes will go up to pay for Scribner Place, when that assertion simply is not true.
Is not true.
Why is it that only the proponents can have hidden agendas?
I'm a little person, too, in the sense that most of you seem to regard it. Like you, my house, my family, and my job are important.
Why is it that I don't feel threatened by change? That I don't feel bulldozed by anyone? That I feel like we can do all these things if we try - and not because of money and such that we don't try, but because we think we can't.
I played sports, and maybe some of you did, too. You simply can't win unless you think you can win.
Why can't New Albany win?
Hint - the answer isn't "because we little people don't have a voice. We do. It's about what we do with the voice that really matters.
By
Anonymous, at 10:22 AM, June 17, 2005
Im finding the more i read on this blog the more insensitive and roughness not commonly used in the Real internet form.To accuse one of wearing a mask states to me that (whomever) is upset of the info given or the style they write, remember not all are professional writers and the purpose of this blog is to state what WE as the people find of interest and concern........not all of us will agree but i dont believe its anyone right to judge one by thier type style of writing or what information they give, make note i have read what concerned taxpayer has writen in past and will say i know what that was given was the truth.......so where do we all go from here..take what you read with a grain of salt or a blind eye like so many good ole boys in this town have done for years ............i believe its time to clean house , do whats best for the people of new albany not whats best for the office holders or thier side kicks.
By
Anonymous, at 10:35 AM, June 17, 2005
Jim Baird,
Who said anything about wealth? Little people doesn't refer to the majority of NA citizens. It refers to a small group of people who continually post comments on this blog to intentionally mislead people.
The comments from concern taxpayer above are a perfect example.
She claims that the mayor is banking on county involvement in Scribner Place. The mayor has never said that. The mayor has continuously stated that he hopes the county will decide to be involved but we can't count on it. She also reports that the county is moving city employees out of the city/county building. What she doesn't say is that the county is planning to move other employees downtown. There will be a net gain in the number of county employees downtown.
She also said it was established that Randy Smith has property in several council districts. That's not true, either. When Mr. Smith spoke to the council, he specifically addressed the council members who represent him, including the at-large members. His home is in one district and his business is in another.
There's a difference between stating an opinion and stating something that's not true as fact. concern taxpayer either doesn't understand or chooses to ignore that difference.
By
Jeff Gillenwater, at 11:16 AM, June 17, 2005
Hey Tim, I know your blowing off steam, but until you have lived or visted a real third world country, give it a rest!
I have seen proverty, beyond anything that exist in our town, I have seen people living in cardboard houses, with sewers running down the middle of the street.
My inlaws have a house on Linda Drive, everytime there is a heavy rain they have to turn a valve or they get raw sewage backed up in the basement. It comes from over building, not every damn blade of grass we have needs to be replaced with a damn house!
I have to say it was refreshing last night to finally see the council say no to a project, I thought the word only exist in their vocabulary when dealing with Scribner Place. I am not against the owners of the land developing their property, just develop it wisely!
And for all you folks that keep throwing up the term little people, just what the hell is the little people, has the Wizard of Oz hit town. Little people are only in their little minds, you guys that are calling yourself little need to stand tall, you don't have to hide behind anything or anyone! By calling yourselves little people you just help grow the preception!
STAND TALL!
By
Rick Carmickle, at 12:00 PM, June 17, 2005
Luke - Laura already said that anonymity is the key to truth, or something equally ridiculous.
She reaps what she sows. Raw sewage on the ground, and raw sewage from concern taxpayer, Same thing, I reckon.
By
Anonymous, at 12:52 PM, June 17, 2005
Dear H.I., Bullmoose, Ed, Jake, Sherlock, Abe, Ernest, Clarence, etc.
You seem to be somewhat predjudiced against all of the women who speak at the council meetings such as, Susan, Valla Ann, Anna, and Laura. These brave women speak up in front of predominately male council and crowd with topics that are not usually popular.
Anyone can stand up and say a few clever words in front of their friends but it takes real guts to stand up in front of the "good ole boys" and disagree with them or bring up subjects that nobody wants to think about. Everybody likes to visualize a shining new building but nobody wants to visualize toilet paper floating in the gutters.
We have to get our heads out the the clouds and start thinking realistically. That is what these women are doing. A lot of the "little women" run the households and pay the bills. They know how high the sewer bills are and what the property taxes cost. They are the voices of reason and not the "ditsy broads" they are made out to be.
We have been fighting for equal rights for a hundred years and we're still not there. We have NOT come a long way, baby.
By
Anonymous, at 1:30 PM, June 17, 2005
Susan,
I haven't seen anyone use gender issues as a methodology for argument except you. What evidence of prejudice can you provide?
By
Anonymous, at 1:59 PM, June 17, 2005
Woman, man, trans, doesn't matter one bit.
Susan is the latest to fail to explain why raw sewage and Scribner Place are connected.
They are not. And that's simply not a gender issue.
By
Anonymous, at 2:28 PM, June 17, 2005
Luke, you mentioned guts.
You gonna get punished by the socio-axe, baby.
By
Anonymous, at 2:29 PM, June 17, 2005
Susan B.
I agree with above!
It does take guts to stand up in front of the public and speak! Doesn't matter what your gender is.
I haven't seen any gender bashing or for that matter any bashing in the past week, it looks like this blog has taken on the feel for what was intended, discussing issues!
Are you missing the old blog with the name calling, slanderous accusitions? If so, start your own blog and leave this one for those who wish to discuss topics of intrest, not just fight!
By
Rick Carmickle, at 2:31 PM, June 17, 2005
As a "HOMEOWNER" I side with Laura!I would want raw sewage resolved before I would ever "Support Scribner Place." I truly agree with Dan Coffey's plan, and we don't need bluegill or Baylor here at this taxpayers blog, do we?.
By
Anonymous, at 5:13 PM, June 17, 2005
bluegill and the New Albanian are taxpayers and homeowners.
By
Anonymous, at 5:26 PM, June 17, 2005
When did Laura address the council? I know the men who are CFP are more pro-women than most of the women on this blog. I may have ovaries, but that doesn't preclude listening to a man's intelligent contributions/opinions nor validate a woman's just because she is a woman.
By
Anonymous, at 6:17 PM, June 17, 2005
bluegill what is your problem? James Garner is not going to get a dime outta the county council! And it has been in the making for at least 3 years to move the first floor office to the new location. So why do you and others keep complaining about people who do not agree with you all? Build Scribner place without property tax backup! Between the YMCA and the boat. And private donation build it. But leave the City of New Albany out of it. So because you do not agree with us. "IT MAKES YOU RIGHT AND US WRONG." If you all think your going to be able to convince the people of New Albany that this whole deal has no risk. Why do you wonder why our Council Members are getting so many calls against Scribner Place? And like Susan Johnson said if there is no sewer credits. Nothing will be built.. Can you one of the Band of Brothers see we know what your doing! Susan has been working with Sewers for along time. And she does have sewer in her yard and home. Even behind The Hampton Inn there is raw sewage. You need to stop trying to spin this to Benfit this Adminstration. Because people are not buying it. So like I said build it without property tax backing!!!!There is not enough Votes on The City Council to attach Property taxes for the Bond..From what Susan told me today. Between Roanoke And Mc Donald Lane Another block of force main needs replaced. And if it is not done. It will end up costing Additional millions more. The sewers are not completed!!!
By
Anonymous, at 7:41 PM, June 17, 2005
It seems to me there is alot of Dead People talking? I thought Baylor and bluegill was sent back to the other blog! We knew it would be a matter of time before they returned. I do not support using property taxes to back the bond!
By
Anonymous, at 7:45 PM, June 17, 2005
ed norton: You ought to know alot about sewers! It is ashamed the person using your name does not? Without Sewer Credits nothig can be built!
By
One voice, at 7:49 PM, June 17, 2005
But New Albany Ralphie, I never said anything about it being my real name.
By
Anonymous, at 7:55 PM, June 17, 2005
Concern taxpayer cracks me up.
He or she says: So because you do not agree with us. "IT MAKES YOU RIGHT AND US WRONG."
Nope, that's not it at all. Your being right or wrong has nothing whatsoever to do with who agrees or disagrees with you.
It has to do with whether your information is factual, and whether it is stated in valid premises that add up to a logical argument.
If you, concern taxpaper, were standing alone in the woods with only the trees to hear you, you being right or wrong would still depend on the factors I've cited above.
The reason why you hate bluegill and the new albanian so much is because when they were here, they asked questions of you and showed that most of your arguments are opinionated expressions of feeling and not factually supported.
You can't take it, so you get angry, and of course, you're not alone. It's just one more factor that keeps you "little", as you're so fond of saying.
By
Anonymous, at 8:57 PM, June 17, 2005
We're old and used up, why should we care about what you young people want to do with the town.
By
Anonymous, at 8:59 PM, June 17, 2005
The Tribune had an editorial today on "Scribner Place should not be a scare tactic." I copied it from NA Confidential.
Thgis is it:
As debate continues and some insist on finding flaws with funding proposals for the Scribner Place project, the city is losing more time that could be spent building the proposed downtown development.
Next month, Mayor James Garner will present the City Council with a $16.8 million bond proposal that will be used to help fund the city’s portion of the project, which includes a YMCA, aquatic center and private development.
The bond is in jeopardy of being voted down. Some council members say they are concerned about one of three proposals that would use property taxes to back up the bond and save the city about $1.7 million.
The financial consultants – those who actually know – say the plan will not increase taxes on local residents. Instead, using property taxes only helps the city’s credit in securing the bond.
It appears that some council members are using the property tax backup as a scare tactic with constituents, yet another method of playing politics. At least one wants to remove the city from the project and hand it over to the YMCA. Again, those who know say that the YMCA would face the same financial hoops as the city. However, the city actually has more avenues of obtaining dollars.
Money to fund Scribner Place will not be used from the city’s general fund. They received $20 million from the Caesars Foundation of Floyd County. The city would be foolish to jeopardize that generous gift.
Downtown New Albany is not often given $20 million to help a dying area. Rather than politic that away, the council members who seem to invent new barriers need to realize the scope of what Scribner Place could mean for the future of downtown New Albany – including the west end, which could use a boost.
By
Anonymous, at 9:03 PM, June 17, 2005
When concern taxpayer calls a local businessman Kojak, isn't that NOT in keeping with the atmosphere on this blog?
By
Anonymous, at 9:56 PM, June 17, 2005
My problem, CP, is that you continue to lie. I merely pointed out that part of what you said is not true.
If you can prove it true, do so. If not, you have no argument.
But please, do tell me what I'm doing since you can see it so clearly. I'd love to hear your explanation.
By
Jeff Gillenwater, at 10:26 PM, June 17, 2005
Shirley said -
"When the city first built the sewer system don't you think they made this a priority instead of saying 'let's build a pretty building and a pool first' then worry about the raw sewage later."
If you expect me to take seriously your problems with sewage, and I certainly do take them seriously, then can you extend the same courtesy of trying to understand the issues involved with economic development and Scribner Place, and not just dismiss them like a child would?
By
Anonymous, at 10:34 PM, June 17, 2005
Well here comes the Adminstration's Sin on things! I also sat there last night listening to the same comments. And the bottom line is we have a choice. It is apparent there is a line in the sand of New Albany. Like concern taxpayer says. So I DO agree with Dan Coffey. And I was very impressed with Susan Johnson. Again this goes back to previous Council Meetings. Seems like certain people at any cost forget The people have been mislead again.
By
Anonymous, at 10:39 PM, June 17, 2005
I do not support Scribner Place. I feel my tax dollars are needed for sewer repairs. I thank Mrs. Susan Johnson for her well put words.Made alot of sense.
By
Anonymous, at 10:42 PM, June 17, 2005
Don't waste my tax dollars on Scribner Place!
By
Anonymous, at 10:45 PM, June 17, 2005
Here comes the Adminstration's Spin on things. We need to put it on a ballot Vote like the boat!
By
Anonymous, at 10:47 PM, June 17, 2005
Your tax dollars are not being used for Scribner Place, Schmeltz family. Perhaps someone is lying to you about it.
By
Anonymous, at 10:47 PM, June 17, 2005
Here they come now - all the posts at the same time, geez, just like one person's doing it.
By
Anonymous, at 10:48 PM, June 17, 2005
Contact your Local Council Member and remind them they work for us. And tell them "NO" to Scribner Place. I support Steve Price's theory "Don't co-sign this loan." Not in the best interest of the Taxpayers.
By
One voice, at 10:51 PM, June 17, 2005
Even Coffey corrected Price and said it was not co-signing, it was collateral.
Do the facts have any importance to any of you, or is this just about a jihad against people you feel inferior to?
By
Anonymous, at 10:53 PM, June 17, 2005
No to Scribner Place. This Adminstration is still lying to us. Let Overton foot the Bill. Or Let the YMCA pay for it.
By
Anonymous, at 10:56 PM, June 17, 2005
Fix our Sewers and The HELL with Scribner Place!!!!!! Here we go again.
By
Anonymous, at 10:59 PM, June 17, 2005
Wow, they're starting to curse again. Lauraaa.
By
Anonymous, at 11:14 PM, June 17, 2005
Larry and Kathy Martin,
You've stated that this administration is still lying to us. I'm sure you'll be able to explain what constitutes the lie.
It's a simple process. All you have to do is document what they said and prove that it's not true. And since you said "still lying", which implies that they've lied multiple times, it might be helpful if you could repeat that process more than once.
I'm eagerly awaiting your response.
By
Anonymous, at 11:20 PM, June 17, 2005
I would like your reasoning in why we should use the plan to use propery taxes to back this bond issue. Other than your reason of getting a lower interest rate? Since many of you have the answers. Convince me and others what the best plan is? And why?
By
Anonymous, at 4:49 AM, June 18, 2005
Ms. Denhart,
You just may be one of the very few people who do not have a credit card, so you may not understand this!
But this no different than jumping from your current credit card which charges 18% interest to a different brand that will reduce your interest to lets say 10.9 %. You as a consumer save yourself lots of money over the period of pay back! The whole idea here is to save money! Money you can use to buy other needs you may have!
Same thing with the city, by putting the property tax as collateral, the city gets a better return on its money!
Again, your property tax is not going to increase, you are not going to loose your house in Sheriffs sale, nothing will change it is all paperwork, you as a citizen will not see a thing done to your taxes!
The collateral is a guarantee to the people, who are just like you and me, they want to know if they buy these bonds that one they will earn interest, and be safe!
Who do you think buys these bonds? They are bought by groups of investors, some are funds from pension plans, retirement accounts, etc. Have you never in your life bought a US Savings Bond, where you pay $25.00 for a piece of paper that will be worth $50.00 in seven years?
People need to understand, the sewage is going to be taken care of, it was obvious the other night that CM Kochert was aware of the problems, and engineer of the sewers is working on it, may take time, but then again, look at the amount of rain on May 19 they are talking about, it supposedly only happens once in 25 years, so we got 24 years, 11 months to get ready for the next one!
You asked about other than the lower intrest rate. How about the fact if we use option 1, the city only has to put one million dollars up for edit money, until the Ceaser money has been transfered to the city, after the transfer that money can be used for anything the city needs. How ever under the other options, the city must lock away one million dollars as a backup, and that money can not be touched for the life ot the bond payment.
So lower intrest rates, availability of money now, just two reasons that option one is best choice.
By
Rick Carmickle, at 9:03 AM, June 18, 2005
Mr. Carmickle - that was done clearly.
So many of our questions have been answered here, its just too bad that there are some people who cant or wont think about the answers because their minds are made up.
That wouldnt be so bad, except they have to go and spread their bad feelings around the area.
There isnt a single reason to be afraid. My education is limited too but I understand the way that Mr. Carmickle and bluegill have explained it.
You want to hate and not think, then go ahead, but just dont drag the city down with you.
By
Anonymous, at 9:29 AM, June 18, 2005
DISCRIMINATION is an important word.
The attacks aimed toward certain people
in comments are sad and unacceptable.
People are being attacked because they
have used "incorrect" english in some
council meetings. These attacks rank right up there with DISCRIMINATION.
In fact, you are saying that all council members are required to have a Masters
Degree in the English language.
You have been so enraged with the term,
"Little People". Perhaps, the council
members you are critizing are doing their jobs and representing the "Little
People".
By
Anonymous, at 10:09 AM, June 18, 2005
Concern Taxpayer,
I think all of these guys pick on you because you speak out and they can't handle that. You show everyone the problems with this city that a lot of people are trying to cover up. Like Bill OReilly you have a "No Spin Zone" keep up the good work. I enjoy reading your comments and like the fact that you don't take any bull.
By
Anonymous, at 10:20 AM, June 18, 2005
PUT SCRIBNER ON THE BALLOT------------
Does anyone know of the steps it requires to get the question of Scribner Place on the ballot? To clarify-- the YMCA is a
separate agency and doing their own fundraising. They have not asked for our
property tax backup. Full support for YMCA.
PS-- To you English professors, I hope that I did not misspell any words.
By
Anonymous, at 11:25 AM, June 18, 2005
I fully agree that we need to put Scribner on the ballot. I am not sure of the steps involved but I will find out.
All of the citizens of New Albany need to know what is going on. They need to know all of the facts before making a decision.
By
Anonymous, at 11:31 AM, June 18, 2005
Ms. Baird, our sewer capacity is now such that we can develop pretty much every square inch of the city without putting a strain on it. Scribner Place won't put a dent in that capacity, even years from now when downtown is thriving. If a particular sewer line is damaged, it should be fixed. The sewer board has the money but perhaps they do not have the will to help with, say, Ms. Johnson's neighborhood problem. Mr. Kochert implied that everything that can be done is being done as fast as possible. The real point is that the money for Scribner Place has nothing to do with sewer money. Caesars isn't giving us $20 million to fix our sewers. I really don't see where building Scribner Place is robbing from any other priorities. EDIT money is for economic development. It's not for other priorities. The main sewer problem has been fixed. Now it's just a matter of finding the leaks, replacing the lines, and making sure that hastily built developments from the '50s with poor construction and disconnected sewer pipes are found and fixed. But those problems are going to fall on the property owners, not the sewer board. The original builders/owners screwed up. In the inner city, storm sewers are the watchword. In outlier subdivisions, most of the problem comes from the developers. Why don't you call the mayor and ask him to support a bond issue for a 21st century makeover of the defective sewer lines. It may require assessments on the offending properties, too, but no one I've seen on this blog is minimizing your concerns about sewers. They just don't acknowledge your connection of downtown redevelopment with subdivision sewers. Why not do both? We do have EDIT money available. This is why we need more commercial development. Residences cost more in services than they pay in taxes. But why let commercial development intrude on neighborhoods or sprawl out our artery roads when we have the infrastructure in place and a compact, easily accessible downtown where we can provide services cheaply while reaping more revenues. Plus, more jobs will generate more income tax revenue. Scribner doesn't take away money from the sewer board. It simply doesn't.
By
Anonymous, at 11:55 AM, June 18, 2005
OK. Let's fix em. It can be done. Frustration shouldn't lead to confusion.
By
Anonymous, at 2:09 PM, June 18, 2005
I tried the "collapse comments" button and instead of a dogpile, i get a list of posters. that way i don't have to read anything but what i want. Go away anomous by request!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By
Anonymous, at 2:11 PM, June 18, 2005
Ok, is now the right time for Jerry Springer to jump out from behind the door!
Or is Allen Funt hiding somewhere behind a bush with his 8mm film camera?
Seens like there is more entertainment on this blog than HBO.
I do want to say, as I drove out of the Sams Club parking lot tonight with my fixens for Fathers Day tomorrow, I wondered how many of those new business even gave New Albany a thought! Have we ran off any chance of survival for our city, shall we just succumb to being the bedroom community of Louisville, will be soon be seeing Mayor Jerry charging across the Sherman Minton bridge with sword raised proclaiming that New Albany is now annexed into Metro Louisville!
It's not going to happen, but with the way our citizens look at our city it may as well! Most of you have given up on New Albany, but guess what! The heart monitor hasn't flat lined yet! Instead of all this fighting and bickering we should be working together, together we can do both fix the sewers, (which is pretty much done already) and build Scribner Place.
I totally understand and agree with Mrs Johnson the other night, no one should have to put up with raw sewage crossing their yard! And I feel that her problem was addressed by CM Korchert, they are working on fixing the problems as they occur. As Tim D said, now time to fix the clogged artieries!
Hey Tim D. how about you running for Mayor, why not just go for the Popes job! We could stick a pipe out one of the windows of the city council building, and all of us stand around looking for white smoke coming out of it!
NOW bofore anyone of you starts throwing barbs at me for that statement, one, I have had a few talks with Tim, I think he knows that I have a strange sense of humor. Two, get over it!
I signed my name to this, so Tim, if you need another apology from me call me at the studio!
Can't get more honest than that!
By
Rick Carmickle, at 7:46 PM, June 18, 2005
Click on my identity for the TRUTH!
By
Anonymous, at 9:41 PM, June 18, 2005
Concern Taxpayer,
Thanks for the chart. Now I can see why we would want to pay $2 million more than we have to.
Make sure to click on Concern Taxpayers name to see the chart.
By
Anonymous, at 11:11 PM, June 18, 2005
"I am The Concern Taxpayer" And none of you can "BULLY ME." So continue attacking me. using concern taxpayer said: When you attack me. Again I say-YOU ATTACK EVERY HOMEOWNER IN NEW ALBANY. We know several of you on this Blog writing is being fed by this Adminstration.(WHAT-EVER!) Because Susan Johnson had the guts to stand up and tell the whole City you are being mislead. Mr. Kochert was not aware of what she was going to say. And there is not enough money to make the repairs on the sewers. i think I heard 5 Million you said Randy? I DID NOT SEE ATTY. PFIFFER JUMP UP TO TRY TO DISCREDIT HER" So I guess her having "S--- In her basement. As well as alot of other "HOMEOWNERS" is a lie,and should not be concern unless we have raw sewage in our basement etc. As some idiot said what does that have to do with Scribner Place. It has a hell of alot to do with Scribner Place. If there is no sewer credits you can't build nothing. It does not take a PHD to figure that one out. You act like the people of New Albany don't talk to there Councilman or Councilwomen. You do not realize Taxpayers talk to Indiana State Board Of Accounts! People do go out and take digital pictures of raw sewage! And send it to the EPA? Alot of you have no real clue to what goes on in this Town? We have spent Millions of Dollars on this Sewer Project. And it is "STILL NOT FIXED"....And when the EPA steps in and fines Good Olde New Albany. Then what? And to Mr. Carmickle: I have a wallot full of "GOLD CARDS." I would like to ask several of you? Where were you in 2002? When Overton Started this whole mess?? When Gregg Lamar was cookin New Albany's books. Ask him about 2 or 3 different sets of books. And how Overton spent-spent-spent and got us in this mess. The so "CALLED LITTLE PEOPLE" SEVERAL OF YOU MAKE FUN OF IS MAD AND FED UP." I never saw none of you protesting for the police and fireman of New Albany. Against Overton! How many Council Meeting have you attend since Scribner Place was brought up from Overton! Your just now appearing? Some of you don't even "VOTE". Nor Stand up and say "The Pleadge" And all of a sudden several of you have became "EXPERTS" ON Bond money and Scribner Place? When the bottom line is-unless the City Council votes to back up bond money with Property Taxes the YMCA can't pleadge or get there own loan?..Now tell me again You all don't have an agenda? Like I have said before: You all will argue over a box of rocks! (1) You hate Anonymous blog comments. (2) Your jealous of Laura's blog.(because yours failed!) (3) Your idea of little people is height not truth! (4) You attack anyone and everyone who disagree's with you! (5) And as they say- You always save the best for last... And Me the Concern Taxpayer? Maybe I work in the Mayors office? Or maybe my family member know's Kay Garry? Maybe I am an Elected Office Holder? Continue to belittle people on this BLOG. And keep taking your best shots at me. Rember everyone who lives in New Albany are gulliable-stupid-and alot of misinformed taxpayers. Were getting ready to show The City Of New Albany how the sole called "Little People Feel." about Scribner Place. I don't have all the answers and neither do you! The Real Concern Taxpayer!
By
Anonymous, at 11:53 PM, June 18, 2005
Well said "Concern Taxpayer" You continue to amaze me! Now this took guts to write, I do support what you say!
By
Anonymous, at 12:02 AM, June 19, 2005
Concern Taxpayer 10 - Baylor 0 Great Job!
By
One voice, at 12:07 AM, June 19, 2005
Freedom Of Speech: Go Concern Taxpayer. No wonder they don't want an Audit? Just maybe a few people might go to jail!
By
Anonymous, at 7:06 AM, June 19, 2005
Concern Taxpayer does make a very good point.
Have we been cleared by the EPA and has the sewer ban been lifted so that we have sewer credits for new construction? Seems that was one of the conditions imposed on us when we were cited by EPA, and we were placed on a sewer ban until in compliance.
By
Ann, at 8:28 AM, June 19, 2005
Concern Taxpayer, congratulations on all those gold cards, you may want to get rid of a few, interest rates are going up!
Now, to answer some of your questions. To be honest when the Overton administration started this so called mess, I didn’t give a damn one way or another if Scribner Place became reality. I was busy growing my business and taking care of my family, my tunnel vision was so narrow, I sometimes crushed the roses under foot than taking time to smell them! I am sure if I thought about it I could throw at least a hundred more clichés towards you but why bother.
And as far a Gregg Lamar cooking the books, all I can say about that is if he did something illegal, then let’s investigate him and the former Mayor and prosecute them!
How about that comment I don’t vote, sorry to inform you I have voted in every election except back in the 70’s when I was in the Navy stationed in Guam, but come to think of it I voted absentee those three years!
Now, I give you I have only been attending council meetings a few months, I own a business in the downtown area, and I guess one day I just work up and thought how dreadful, all these empty buildings, my tunnel vision was opened, I saw that now was the time to do something, I, with the help of others started a Merchants Association, again.
When in your mind is the time to join in on a cause? If one is not there at the start should he just say to hell with it, I will wait until the next one comes along? Just because I wasn’t there in the beginning doesn’t mean I can’t jump on the bandwagon half way through the mud!
Now, about your comment, about not standing and not saying the pledge of allegiance? Isn’t this a great country that allows for diversity of each and all of us. There are Jewish folks present in the council chambers, by the freedom of this country they do not have recite a prayer that is not of their faith, same goes for those that do not want to say an allegiance to a flag. Does that mean they are all communist and we need to take them out and shoot them? NOT WHAT THIS NATION IS ABOUT!
Concern taxpayer, you seem angry, and that’s OK, you got that right! Hey! I am not jealous of Laura’s BLOG as you stated, I am finding it a very important learning tool when I am able to weed out the bullshit comments! I figure why start twenty different BLOGs, between Rogers and Laura’s we got all the bases covered, and then there is Clean UP New Albany website, there are all kinds of BLOGs to keep you and I busy!
Finally, the anonymous comment! You may be an elected official, hell you may be the Mayor himself, could be your Kay Garry’s daughter! Guess what? I don’t give a damn who you are! You are not willing to stand by one thing you put in print, because you will not sign your name to it! You will not stand and defend your self and your ideals, why?
Are you scared of the truth! Do you know the truth! Or are you just sitting behind your computer smoking a doobie and just let your fingers do the walking with out giving one thought to what you’re saying!
Be a man or be a woman, be anything you want to be, just be HONEST! Show your face!
NOTE TO LAURA! This may well be the most agitated post I have made, I have tried my best not to point fingers, name names, be courteous to all, but this Concern Taxpayer needs to come out of the closet! I don’t always spell things right or use the right form of punctuation, in fact I am the KING OF FRAMENTED SENTANCES, (Sorry Ms Katterjohn were ever you are!) But when I write something I put my NAME TO IT!
Rick Carmickle
By
Rick Carmickle, at 10:34 AM, June 19, 2005
I notice "concern taxpayer" wanted to be included in a conversation I had Thursday night after the City Council meeting with Susan Johnson. She was coherent and made a strong case for action to be taken to determine what's causing sewage to back up into yards and streets. And I told her so.
CT, why didn't you speak up instead of lurking? CT, you seem to have a problem with what I said to her. Please tell us what the current sewer fund balance is and the amount required to be maintained in reserve.
Ms. Johnson pleaded for action and CM Kochert, not at all defensively, told her that the problem was being addressed. In fact, he took great pains to dispel the impression that the Sewer Board was taking action under force or threat by regulatory agencies.
If weak sewer connections from individual properties are at fault, those property owners will be responsible, and that can easily cost them a sum in the low five figures.
If collecting pipes are broken or leaking, we need to know the scope of the problem. Is it something that can be addressed problem-by-problem over the course of a few years? Or is it a massive, systemwide problem? I don't know. Our sewers seem to operate just fine here in the residential part of the inner city, and they work just fine downtown, too.
My question for you, CT, is this? Why do you seek enemies? Why don't you seek allies? Use your persuasive skills to demonstrate the scope of the problem. Tell us what you are for. Are you for a new sewer bond issue? Then show us why it's needed.
Instead, you accuse people of corruption from your anonymous perch, all the while failing to provide evidence of that corruption. You question the motives of people who care about this city and its future, who aren't content for things to stay the same, who don't want New Albany to be the last stop on the economic highway to hell.
If anyone is launching attacks, it's you, CT. You are the bully.
By
All4Word, at 11:47 AM, June 19, 2005
DOWNTOWN PARKING GARAGE EXPENSE-----
Annual Bond payment from edit. $615,000
City pays electric bill... $ 8,400 yr
City pays elevator costs.. $ 1,955 yr
City pays other maintenance cost $$$$
City contracts out the operation of the
parking garage to a private firm.
HAS THIS PARKING GARAGE BEEN THE GREAT
DOWNTOWN INCENTIVE IT INTENDED TO BE??
By
Anonymous, at 1:55 PM, June 19, 2005
I don't know. And neither do you or anyone else based solely on the numbers reported above.
Where are the numbers indicating how much revenue is generated by the Community Bank headquarters each year (by both the bank and all the employees who work there)? How long after the bond is paid off will that revenue continue to be generated?
How much revenue does the garage itself generate? How much more will it have generated twenty years from now?
When downtown parking becomes more of a real problem instead of just a perceived one and we really need a parking garage, how much will we have saved by building it earlier rather than later, when prices for land, material, and labor have all gone up?
This is just a start to the information you'd need to gather in order to determine if the garage was a good investment or not. Hopefully, you can help us out by providing some of it.
By
Anonymous, at 7:47 PM, June 19, 2005
Thank you, Laura, the citizens of New
Albany appreciate your efforts to give everyone an open forum to discuss city
problems. I would like to ask some of the responders to be courteous and not try to wear the readers out with such long drawn out articles. Give us all a
chance to read and to be heard.
To the authors of these long articles, I would like to suggest that you post your comments using one subject per
article. This allows all of us slow,
less intelligent to be able to read and
to understand what you are saying.
By
Anonymous, at 7:48 PM, June 19, 2005
Macedonian? Baylor must be back! Plain down to earth words is more effective then taking up space. This is 2005. Go Concern Taxpayer. You make more sense in what you say!
By
Anonymous, at 8:57 AM, June 20, 2005
Thanks for asking, Shirley. Call me Randy. And, as with "east ender," "The New Albanian," and millions of others in the blogosphere, I use a pen name that has particular meaning to me. That's why my screen name (and yours) show up in blue hot links. Click on those links and you'll be able to see my complete blogger profile, including any and all blogger sites I contribute to, plus it includes my e-mail address, which I note is not available under your profile. If integrity and accountability are important, you will seek transparency. How do we know you are really "Shirley Baird?" Big difference, huh? I'd wager most everyone already knows who "All4Word" is, but I don't mind you asking at all. Can you say the same about the anonymous denizens of this site? Laura has banned "process" questions, but I suppose she'll allow our little colloquy...
Signed
Bill Johnson ;)
By
All4Word, at 9:14 AM, June 20, 2005
No, I did not swoop into this blogyard and use the word "macedonian," although I think it pretty much says it all for NA Resident to gloat over my losing 10-0 (??) when I've been banned from playing the game.
Is that your idea of a fair contest?
By
The New Albanian, at 2:10 PM, June 21, 2005
new albanian: When have you ever played fair? You don't have a prayer against Concern Taxpayer! Were still waiting for you to Address the council on your views and point of Attack? It is alot easier to hid on your blog and write then to stand up and attack the council! See you at next meeting July 7th.The taxpayers of New Albany are not going to give this Adminstration a blank check for Scribner Place.....
By
Anonymous, at 10:22 PM, June 26, 2005
Cite the instance when I didn't play fair.
And, while you're at it, explain how it is that my identity is known but I'm hiding, while you're anonymous and are brave.
Please, tell me. Can ya?
Didn't think so.
By
The New Albanian, at 8:18 PM, June 28, 2005
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