EPA Letter and Our Opinions
We have obtained a copy of the official letter from the EPA to the City of New Albany dated Feb. 6th, 2006, which outlines the requirements of work that must still be completed before any sewer credits will be allotted.
The letter clearly states that although the upgrade of the Sewage Plant has increased capacity...:
"New Albany is still, however, experiencing significant overflows..."
The letter goes on to cite specific instances of concern such as a 94,000 gallon overflow on Nov. 15th, 2005, and another 38,000 gallon overflow on Nov. 28th, 2005, and there are 2 projects the City must complete in order to utilize the plant's increased capacity without experiencing overflows. They express concerns:
"The November 28 overflows are particularly troubling, as a 1.5 inch rain event is substantially smaller than storms the plant improvements were designed to endure without sanitary sewer overflows in the system."
PROOF OF THE LETTER:
The EPA letter further explains:
"...[T]here are two projects that the City must complete in order to routinely use the full capacity of the upgraded facility without experiencing these overflows, and [the EPA] has conditioned the award of approximately the first two thirds of the credits upon the completion of these two projects."
The two projects required are the installation of an upgraded bar screen, and upgrades to the Robert E. Lee lift station.
They note:
"As evidenced by my December 17, 2004 letter, we have been concerned with the delays in the bar screen upgrade process for several years, and failures at the bar screen have caused a significant number of bypasses and overflows. We will issue the final third of the credits one year after the completion of the upgrades to the Robert E. Lee lift station if these two projects have successfully eliminated overflows occurring due to these problem areas."
Folks, this portion of the letter acknowledges that Mayor Garner was directly made aware of the source of our sewer problems, and the repairs needed to resolve the matter, in December of 2004, his first year in office. After all, he did appoint himself Chair of the Sewer Board upon his election as Mayor.
This portion of the letter also explains that even once the 2 projects are completed, they will not issue the final third of the sewer credits until we pass a one year oversight period showing that overflows have been alleviated.
In 2002, when Garner was a sitting Council Member, the Council passed (9-0) a resolution (R-02-51) pledging $270K in annual EDIT funds for the purpose of Sewer Works maintenance and repairs in order to meet the EPA mandates. However, these designated funds have not been utilized for necessary repairs, per the resolution, since Garner took office, and nobody seems to know where the money went. They will only tell us it is gone.
When asked how they intend to replace this money, all we got was a shrug of the shoulders from our Mayor.
WHAT ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY???
The letter concludes:
"The EPA is not currently issuing, nor including in the above schedule, additional credits for the excess flow basin (EFB). As I (Sally K. Swanson, Chief, Water Enforcement and Compliance Assurance Branch of the U.S. EPA) noted in my Oct. 6, 2004 letter granting 61,000 credits for the EFB, [the] EPA reserved issuance of an additional 61,000 credits because the City has been unable to fill the EFB. At the date of this letter [Feb.6, 2006], approximately 15 months later, the City has still not utilized the full capacity of the EFB.
EPA recognizes that the bar screen repairs at the headworks of the plant may allow full usage of the EFB, and will consider issuance of these credits in the future, if the City can fill the EFB to alleviate overflows."
Now, the time has come when the City is at a virtual standstill for any significant Economic Development growth due to the lack of allowable sewer credits.
Their plan for obtaining/replacing the money needed to meet the EPA mandates? Raising our sewer rates by as much as 50%!!! We are outraged, and feel that this is not only absurd, but unethical as well. We all antied up with a 49% rate increase in the last administration, giving them a whopping $44 million to "fix" the sewer problems. Only, they didn't fix them. They simply increased the holding capacity of the plant, but the mechanisms for getting the sewage into the nice new big beautiful plant are broken or lacking. They did not do the work that was mandated by the EPA, and we will refuse to pay for more of their mistakes out of our pockets.
We contend they should rescind the EDIT money pledged to the Scribner pool. We could sure use the annual $400K to get into compliance with the EPA without a rate increase to the citizens. The "Y" would still be built and have an opportunity to prove its ability to spawn downtown development. The pool can be built later.
Call your Council Representative and tell them what you think!
To sum it all up:
"This language will also be included in Exhibit 4 of the Amended Consent Decree as part of the forthcoming negotiated changes to that Decree:
The City shall not permit any new industrial, commercial, or residential developments that would have the effect of adding at any particular connection point flows equal to or exceeding 50 houses or 15,500 gpd at full buildout or in the aggregate unless the City first receives approval from EPA."
68 Comments:
Holy ****! Seabrook, do you really feel, you and Kochert, without batting an eyelash, the rate payers should pay for this fiasco?
The minutes concerning WHEN the Sewer Board found out about the "bar screen" is February 2004.
The Robert E. Lee Lift (now called project in order to handle the LaFollette Station line) was MANDATED IN 1997, which the City is in violation of through a 1997 AGREED ORDER with the State of Indiana.
Hold on, too. There was an additional $270,000 pledged by Council, for the future Bond payments of $270,000 per year through EDIT. Is that money missing also and is that why the City can not now make the $5 million dollar bond payment.
Can anyone tell us WHAT THE HE** is going on downtown?
Wait a minute. The public might as well be aware of this situation, too.
Pay special and very close attention to New Albany's historical, historical, Railroad Underground Tunnels at 4th & Main St. This will all be made public soon, from all of the south side of E 4th, N side of E 4th, and on down towards the downtown area. This was documented when the Consent Decree was signed under the last Administration. One reason the NAPP said the "PLAN" selected would not work.
Please be aware some of the people in these areas have been paying sewer bills for these properties for over 30+ years. If it is anything like what happened to the Mansion Row residents (8 or 10 of 'em were running straight to the Ohio); they will try and charge these people "tap-in" fees, you just can't imagine the nightmares which WILL consume these citizens.
All we can say is the last time the Amended Consent Decree was signed, citizens were told THIS TIME someone would GO TO JAIL. We couldn't make this **** up, even if we tried. Can you hear us cursing from here? Can you feel the frustrations of 15 years worth of ****? If you can't, you can't possibly care how people have been working 15 YEARS to get this City back on its' feet in order to get the infrastructure needed SO WE CAN DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO!
If it would make me feel anybody, we guess we'd say I told you so. After 15 years, we just don't know how many people know or care.
Thank you Eastender. The public and the Council NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND what we are talking about with this issue. Thank you.
By Anonymous, at 12:53 AM, February 26, 2006
Please correct that to "if it made me feel any better, I would...". Thank you kindly.
By Anonymous, at 1:15 AM, February 26, 2006
See what people mean when said the lawyers make all of the monies. They make $ selling bonds to "fix" the sewers, for the past, (gee, we give up-how many years) and now Seabrook wants to hire a lawyer and spend more $ to FIGHT FIXING them. Got to hold my tongue on this one. I'd have to preach a sermon! I have a feeling we have a choir, so... Thanks EastEnder, been waiting on it.
By Anonymous, at 1:19 AM, February 26, 2006
great job eastender of getting the truth out there keep up the good work hopethe people of new albany listen and do something about thank you
By Anonymous, at 1:35 AM, February 26, 2006
When the sewer board knew about the bar screen and the robert e lift station is correct. Public testified to ALL THESE ISSUES in July 2004 at the State level.
By Anonymous, at 1:40 AM, February 26, 2006
Is the line u are talking about considered the "Lafollette Station line", or the "Fifer-Ruckman line", or the "Highlander Point" line. Curious. No insinuations here. Public records are on file reflecting who represents who all ON THIS ISSUE alone. Talk about CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, gee Louise. Be glad others know all of the Developers our Sewer Board Attorney has represented WHILE HE WAS (IS STILL) OUR Sewer Board Attorney. Can't wait to hear what you have to say at the Council meeting. Hmmmm, let's see, oh yeah, that's right, heck, no one told us HOW to fix it, right? They just told us we HAD to fix it, right?
By Anonymous, at 2:01 AM, February 26, 2006
Read the whole letter. {Right click on the images.]
It's not that bad. EPA says some good things and gives the city credit and a plan.
EE has cherry-picked what he wanted to make it sound bad.
By Anonymous, at 7:59 AM, February 26, 2006
Trying to make it bad? Cherry Picking -- after 15 YEARS - man, what rock did you crawl out from under? Ignorance is Bliss.
By Anonymous, at 10:31 AM, February 26, 2006
To our family, seeing we are talking about since 1991, you must be part of the problem or you just couldn't make that kind of statement.
$40 some million under England; $44 million under Overton & Garner; how much for the Attorneys, the lawsuits, the fines, the plans, the consultants, the Engineers, makes my head spin!
Fix the INNER-CITY, please. According to what I've seen here, looks like that is going to be necessary, finally. Thanks be.
By Anonymous, at 11:29 AM, February 26, 2006
One sad thing is the City doesn't have gauges, or flow meters, at these SSO locations, therefore when the City says they overflowed by X amount of gallons, that is just a guess. Keep that fact in mind, please. There are minutes existing where the citizens informed the sewer board it was mandatory, before they did any work, they had to have a flow meter showing how much I/I was coming in and then a flow meter in AFTER the work to show how much I/I was coming out. They did not do this part that was required. They started out doing it, but with ALL the changes, they sold them all as we protested.
The citizens are paying a 5-1 ratio on these sewer credits. Some people have tried to level the playing ground between rate payers and citizens to at least to a 5-5 ratio, but to no avail. In other words, we HAVE TO TAKE OUT FIVE GALLONS OF INFILTRATION AND PROVE IT TO GET ONE MEASLEY CREDIT for the developer. How hard is that to understand for these folks? And, God help the "fringe" area; those people are paying time and 1/2, as we call it. In other words, what we pay plus 1/2 of that on top of their bills.
If I was them, I'd get myself unannexed and try to run the other way to the new Georgetown facility they are going to build if NA won't fix the inner City. They can't get credits because they have to use ours, see? Wouldn't blame them a bit. That's how serious this **** is.
Our measley take on things here. Very interesting. Thanks East Ender for the info. Hard work, isn't it? Thanks.
By Anonymous, at 1:36 PM, February 26, 2006
Not much in it that hasn't already been made public.
Insofar as it's fuel for the conspiracy theories, tantamount to non-alcoholic beer.
How many of you are going to listen to Gloria Allred on the 9th?
By The New Albanian, at 2:31 PM, February 26, 2006
new albanian:
You just can't stand it the house of garners cards are going to come down. You will never admit your boy is screwing up! And you will not put no blame on him. So just keep your mouth shut because their is alot more to come out. Conspiracy is just a small part of it. He's already embarrassed himself and his family. Now it's time for him to go!
Great job Laura and the Potty Police! Were getting ready to sandwich the man! Isn't it great. The little people are very proud of you all. Where are your buddies Randy and Maury? Were waiting on their spin on all of this. See even in black and white you act like it is no big deal! That's why you and others are totally out of touch. Ganrer talked a good game to get elected and now he screwed himself. Remember you are the Minority and we are the Majority! Were going to send this boy back to his cleaners come May 2007! Watch us Roger!!!!
By Anonymous, at 2:54 PM, February 26, 2006
Well, I was just about to delete new albanian because there is no sense in even trying to reason with someone who refuses to be reasonable.
However, since someone has already responded, I will let it stand, but from now on please just ignore.
It's a waste of time, energy, and space.
By East Ender, at 3:29 PM, February 26, 2006
Anonymous,
Since you're so in touch, perhaps you'd like to share with everybody all the activites that you've personally been involved in to improve the community. Complaining about others doesn't count.
By Jeff Gillenwater, at 3:52 PM, February 26, 2006
Listening to Gloria Alred on the 7th? Now, that's funny!
You are simply walking on the wrong side of the street New Albanian, when it comes to sewers. It's over by the railroad tracks...get our drift?
You cannot divert your attentions away from the EDIT monies previously pledged by this Council to the Sewer Department. You can not "re-pledge" EDIT money YOU do not have. Please take a course in government financials. They are just a little bit different from regular accounting.
Again, if you don't believe the facts or the figures, please sell your $10.00 pints free. BTW, people are going to be so broke in this city, it's not going to be one BUD"WISER", it's going to have to be one BUD "LIGHTER".
Cheerio
By Anonymous, at 4:35 PM, February 26, 2006
It is ground clutter, EastEnder. Talks a good game, but the rest -- well, we won't go there, hey? Thanks for the posting. Take care.
By Anonymous, at 4:38 PM, February 26, 2006
I've swept up that ground clutter and thrown it in the garbage... where it belongs.
By East Ender, at 6:31 PM, February 26, 2006
FYI
We should note that this letter from the EPA's Chief Water Enforcement and Compliance Assurance Branch was copied to Sewer Board Attorney, Greg Fifer - Assistant United States Attorney, Thomas E. Kieper - IDEM Officials, Mark Stanifer and Hala Silvey - as well as Mark Klingenstien, SAIC - Mike McDonough, WC-15J - and Erik Olson, C-14J.
By East Ender, at 6:39 PM, February 26, 2006
It's a shame that there are some folks in New Albany who insist on butting in with comments that have nothing to do with the issues at hand, but rather just to harass.
I guess we'll keep that broom handy so we can continue to tidy up all the ground clutter.
By East Ender, at 6:48 PM, February 26, 2006
Brandon Smith
The answer to your question is on Freedom of Speech! They seem to print mostly all facts and no ground clutter. You should read the many articles there.
By Anonymous, at 8:04 PM, February 26, 2006
Over 40 Million dollars should have fixed more than what we got for our bucks!
By Anonymous, at 8:08 PM, February 26, 2006
The bar screen is supposed to be done by August (let's hope).
We already have the bar screen from the company that was chosen to do the project.
However, there is a joke going around Downtown that the bar screen may be repossessed before it's installed because we haven't payed for it yet and the company is asking for the money.
Another mess because the money that was appropriated for the work is gone.
Again, we need that EDIT money back that was pledged for sewer maintenance and repairs.
By East Ender, at 8:23 PM, February 26, 2006
Time to make some lemonade and get moving on Linden Meadows and condemning/demolishing unsafe buildings so developers can finish in-fill projects while we're waiting for the sewer credits to come through.
Time also to work on getting better housing. See *Goal - To Improve Housing Quality in New Albany* at the http://sellenjonesna.blogspot.com/ (S Ellen Jones Neighborhood Forum).
By Anonymous, at 10:16 PM, February 26, 2006
We can work on it ALL, together. We all want the whole picture, not just part. Let's do the whole thing together, except we have one measley a** problem, we don't have any money left. Mon
By Anonymous, at 12:15 AM, February 27, 2006
Whoops!
Correction on the earlier comment.
Make that "...paid for it yet."
Oh, what a day it's been around here today. My head is swimming in "other" comments made via other means of communication.
Seems lots of folks are a bit concerned about this letter.
Maybe it's finally sinking in.
We get no more sewer credits until the mandated repairs are completed.
Even then, they will hold the final third of the total credits for a period of one year while we are subjected to a monitoring period to assure the problems are solved.
By East Ender, at 1:50 AM, February 27, 2006
"We get no more sewer credits until the mandated repairs are completed."
Isn't this exactly what was said at the last council meeting?
I ask again - what part of the EPA letter differes from what was said at the last council meeting?
By The New Albanian, at 7:45 AM, February 27, 2006
Maybe the part where you can add anything on at certain collection points in the system, without figuring the impact within the aggregate area...... Think you can do that? Been nice if Council had seen it, also.
By Anonymous, at 9:31 AM, February 27, 2006
You know it would be nice if the "council" would get up off their butts sometimes too. Do they have to have everything personally handed to them? East Ender or someone was interested enough to get the letter. I doubt that it has been hidden.
Not picking on any particular councilperson(s). Just the old saying "if the shoe fits, wear it".
Just make sure that you try the shoe on before declaring that it does not fit.
By Anonymous, at 11:07 AM, February 27, 2006
To IAMHOOSIER, Boy do we agree with that statement. This knowledge had to have been in at least the Mayor's hands before the Council meeting when they declared they were going to fly to Washington and Chicago. Two of the Councilmembers sit on the Sewer Board. I feel the same way you do. Then again, I might want to ask a couple of them as reps for the Council on the Sewer Board why they didn't "share".
I hear they are going to "share" at the next Council meeting. The information will be coming from the Sewer Board Attorney though, not from the two Council Reps. We wish the Council Reps would talk in lay words to the common people that are paying the bills, the bills, the bills that kill - not legal ease from an Attorney who has a serious conflict of interest going for him. But, you are absolutely right, you would think, wouldn't you?
You might want to know the President of the Sewer Board tried to get the Public to come back down the next day and retrieve the information from their secretary. A Board Member saw fit to give the Public a copy at the meeting. Wonder if the Clerk got a copy, much less the Council?
Communication problems in this day and age, incredulous! Leadership? Incredulous.
Thanks for sharing. Our opinions, too.
By Anonymous, at 1:48 PM, February 27, 2006
Word is the Clerk's Office didn't have a copy of this letter either. So, even if a Council member had gone to ask for it (or ask for something they would have no clue to ask for), they could not have gotten it.
As far as Council Members having things handed to them? YES!!!
They should be informed of EVERYTHING and not have to guess if new info is out there, or maybe some entity sent some letter, or any other guesswork that has been so ignorantly suggested.
Furthermore, the Council members who sit on the Sewer Board should have some obligation to inform the rest of the Council about Sewer Board business and what they should be expecting.
By East Ender, at 3:00 PM, February 27, 2006
SO WHO IS AT FAULT FOR LACK OF COMMUNICATION? Duh.....The "MAYOR".
He does not like to play Show and Tell! Instead he plays Hide and Seek......
Give us citizens a break....
By Anonymous, at 3:17 PM, February 27, 2006
I am not suggesting that there have not been communication problems from the administration. I am suggesting if they are having that big of a problem getting information(on any topic) and they CARE, why aren't they beating down the door to the mayor's office? Calling the newspaper(s)? Posting on a blog? Could it be that blaming someone else is easier and safer politically? Ignorance is no excuse after the first time.
Again, not directed at any councilperson in particular.
By Iamhoosier, at 3:50 PM, February 27, 2006
So, the information will be shared by the sewer board attorney at the next council meeting.
Is this the same attorney who stepped AWAY from the podium and the microphone when he "shared" at the last council meeting?
We couldn't hear a thing he was saying.
Think he thought the tape wouldn't pick him up either if he stayed far enough to the side of the podium?
What we did hear them say was that they expected to hear from the EPA about 2 weeks after their trip.
Seabrook jumped on that one!
They never mentioned they had already received this letter.
Perhaps it was the unmentionable impetus for the trip.?!
Also, we think they left out the part about the one year monitoring period before we receive the final third of the credits. Did anyone hear them make mention of that tidbit of information?
Who knows...he stepped away from the podium.
By Anonymous, at 4:05 PM, February 27, 2006
just curious...wow paranoid much?
By Anonymous, at 4:39 PM, February 27, 2006
iamhoosier -
I understand you are not chastising any CM personally, but can you explain how you would expect them to know when and what to go searching for when they are beating down those doors?
What savant do you suggest they use to tell them there is some information about something that they are not getting?
Or should we expect them to have some "divine intervention" that will tell them when info is being withheld?
How on earth can they know they need to ask for something they know nothing about???
Council Members should always automatically receive any and all information and correspondence that pertains to current City business and/or problems.
Is this type of open communication really too much to ask from the Mayor? We shouldn't have to ask.
I'm not fussing at you, I'm fussing at the situation.
Council Members should not be getting City information from the blogs. Just like VH posting the sanitation contract before any council members saw it.
Do you think that was right?
I'm must disagree with you on this issue. The Mayor is responsible for disseminating information.
By East Ender, at 4:44 PM, February 27, 2006
I understand what you are saying and agree with much of it. I just don't communicate very well myself.
My point is, if they know that they have not received needed information in the past why aren't they asking something like "is there anything I(we) need to see/know that you(the mayor) may have forgotten to pass on?"
If they are truly involved councilpersons I am of the opinion that they should have a pretty good idea of what they should be seeing and hearing from the administration. Nothing divine about it.
My point about the newspapers, blogs, etc was not meant for their education. It was a means to communicate their frustration with not being able to get information even after asking for it. I think the Mayor would probably do a better job of it if every couple of days a different coucilperson showed up at his door. I wonder how many and how often any of them actually go to the mayor's office?
By Iamhoosier, at 5:09 PM, February 27, 2006
Forgot to answer you question on the contract posted on VH. It would have been perhaps the polite thing to do. My understanding is that it was not something the council had to vote on. Maybe they would have got a copy at the next meeting. I don't know.
I think we also need to remember the "context" at that time. Don't think any of us want or need to revisit that.
By Iamhoosier, at 5:23 PM, February 27, 2006
IAMHOOSIER: Ya really gotta take this back a few (more than a few) years to put your hands around it. It is a monster in and of itself.
1. Check out the City Council minutes from June 19, 1997 where the Council passed G97-8 9 to 0 regarding the $270,000 meant for inner-City sewer repairs. Remember we keep saying the Robert E Lift was ordered fixed under the Agreed Order with the State in 1997, which is still in effect and which we are in non-compliance of same.
2.This same money is tied to Sewage Works Revenue and the Refunding Bonds of 1991 Series A & Sewage Works Revenue Bonds of 1993.
3. This is 2006. We absolutely have to fix the infra-structure of the inner-city. We have only been trying since the late 80's and early 90's. Can you imagine trying to track all of these monies spent over all of these years and still not have working sewers?
4. By reading the letter from the EPA, we now understand what Mr. Fifer, the Sewer Board Attorney, meant when he spoke about "their not being sure where all the connections were". That may just be the rub, they really aren't sure.
5. Sad state of affairs, but we are trying, trying to keep it all straight. Gotta tell ya -- it ain't no fun, and after all this time, people are sick and TIRED of the literally bull****.
6. Hope that's not too strong, but that's how some of us feel having been entangled within this mess for X amount of years. Yes, it may have been by choice, but by gosh SOMEONE has to. It's obvious the job is not being done downtown.
7. The controller may still not have their hands around the monies because of the mess we are in, and the lack of monies coming into the General Fund because of all of the TIF areas and the Tax Abatements.
8. We know WHY we don't have the monies, help us get them if sewers aren't exactly your kind of thing. Housing is another big issue. We all know it. If that's your gig, do it. Should would help if we were all united, with various goals. Strength in numbers.
Blah, Blah, Blah... Thanks for the space, EastEnder.
By Anonymous, at 6:56 PM, February 27, 2006
It's worth noting in the communicaion debate that some council members haven't taken very simple steps to improve the situation when relevant.
A lot of people have sat in council meetings during which members have complained of a lack of information concerning a given topic. In almost every instance I've personally observed, either the clerk or the controller has stated that if the council member complaining would let them know what information they want or need, they would give it to them. At that point, the council member is aware of the issue, what to ask for, and has received an offer of service to help.
It's not uncommon under those circumstances, though, for the very same council person to come to the next meeting complaining about the lack of the exact same information, having never bothered to tell the clerk or controller what information they wanted or to have even asked what's available.
As iamhoosier points out, communication is a two-way street. The Mayor has certainly been at fault at times. Certain members of the council, however, more often than not seem much more interested in trying to make the Mayor look bad than in actually getting the information necessary for making informed decisions.
I've witnessed council members report information to the public that was flat out factually wrong many times in the short time that I've been involved. In fact, my own public introduction to my council representative was chock full of inaccuracies that would've passed for truth had he not been challenged by people who knew better. Whether it's out of ignorance or malice is always a reasonable question but neither one leads to responsible government.
Both sides are responsible for the poor relationship and they should both be held accountable. Blaming it all on one person is ridiculous.
By Jeff Gillenwater, at 8:13 PM, February 27, 2006
O.K., I'll agree that both sides hold some responsibility.
It does, however, depend on the particular situation.
If there is something the CM's KNOW they are supposed to receive and don't, then they should take the initiative to get it.
However, when there is information the CM's know nothing about, but SHOULD, it is the Mayor's responsibility, as a leader, to make sure the information gets into their hands. Particularly before it gets to the newspapers or posted on a blog.
This should not turn into a blame game. This is about getting better communication among the members of the administration that have been elected to run this City.
Agreed?
We require a cooperative association between our officials if the public is going to be adequately governed.
We expect accountability from our elected officials, not excuses.
By East Ender, at 9:49 PM, February 27, 2006
Seems to me all you ever do is blame the mayor, your hero Bill Schmidt is the biggest part of the problem with all his lies and twisting of facts. Where do all these little people tales of corruption get spun? Where is the HQ for the Garner attack machine?
The gigs up, smile youre on candid camera
By Anonymous, at 10:06 PM, February 27, 2006
We expect accountability from our elected officials, not excuses.
When you figure out how to squeeze this from the likes of Dan Coffey, we'll all be better off.
By The New Albanian, at 10:20 PM, February 27, 2006
Ground clutter, Ground Clutter, Ground Clutter..... Anything you have to add to this conversation that might help, so to say, ANYONE?
Never assume anything, ya'll, about which Council member we trust and which Council member we don't. You do not know us, so therefore there goes any rational judgement call.
Personally, we feel the Council members who represent the Sewer Board should have had a chance to present it to the Council at their last meeting. Why that didn't happen? Who knows? We are simply pointing the obvious communication fiascos between ALL OF 'EM.
Noticed someone anonymous has a severe reading comprehension problem by saying this is an attack on the current Mayor. We coughed up documents and resolutions backing our information to 1991. NEXT 10:06 ANON?
What a joke they seem to think it is. How sad when people cannot communicate about several serious issues facing New Albany, but have nothing relevant to add except insult upon injuries already suffered by its' citizens. Give Us A Break, Please.
By Anonymous, at 10:37 PM, February 27, 2006
Agree with EE's statement about better communication and cooperation. Also agree with the New Albanian's assesment of how Dan Coffey fits into the improvement situation, which is to say, he doesn't. Coffey is the antithesis of productive communication. If you don't believe me, give him twenty minutes and an audience.
By Jeff Gillenwater, at 10:50 PM, February 27, 2006
What they hey does that have to do with the Sewer plan and its failure? What the hey does that do with the City wanting to raise our sewer rates 50%?
GO BACK TO THE END OF THE 80'S AND THE FIRST OF THE 90'S AND WORK YOUR WAY UP...this is just the tale end, or hopefully the final Chapter in this saga.
Too selective for me to deal with; picking on only one when there are 9 to deal with. You live in that area you're complaining about? Put your name on the ballot. We don't care. What we are discussing here is bigger than ALL OF US, unfortunately. It takes ALL OF US to solve it. Quit cherry picking, okay?
Thanks.
By Anonymous, at 11:21 PM, February 27, 2006
We are curious as to a couple of rogue comments that popped up out here in blogland.
First of all, why do some people find it necessary to jump at every chance to bad mouth DAN COFFEY???
We're guessing they have plans for his council seat & are laying the groundwork to vilify him.
Secondly, why have Bill and Anna Schmidt become the targets for unwarranted insults?
We strongly feel an apology is owed to Bill Schmidt for the comment of outright slander and false accusations.
He and Anna are both the best stewards of the public good and welfare this City has.
We have the utmost respect for them, and we will not tolerate anything less than the same on this blog.
The point we are trying to make here is that iamhoosier was good enough to not single out any CM in his/her's efforts to explain their opinion of the CM's not receiving information they feel they should.
Our hope is that with this thread iamhoosier will see the use of these nasty personal attacks for what they really are:
A reflection of morally corrupt characters of some people who think they have all the answers to New Albany's ills, and egotistically believe they should be running the town, or at least hand picking those they believe should lead. (Ha!)
Is anyone really under the illusion that the voters would choose to go from bad to worse?
We think NOT!
Anyway, this should not be about bashing people, and like iamhoosier, we are not directing this to any one person in particular, or naming names.
Originally, we were simply discussing the root of the problem in lapses of communications between City officials, because we all recognize this is a vital link in the chain of any effective government that must be strengthened.
The discussion was civil and we actually had some agreements.
But, some folks just had to take things too far, purely out of meanness and malice. Why?
Finally, no one here has ever made any defenses, or excuses, for the actions or words of Dan Coffey. So, why does his name keep coming up as though he were our hero or representing our views?
Dan is what he is. We are not here to debate why he does what he does, or if it's right or wrong.
So take that C.R.A.P. somewhere else.
Thank You
By East Ender, at 3:40 AM, February 28, 2006
Coffey gets brought up because of the behavior he exhibits. In my opinion, he exemplifies most of what I feel is wrong in New Albany politics and provides numerous examples of the anti-communicative behavior in question. My take on Coffey has nothing to do with how you or anyone else feels about him.
You've pointed out behavior and people you feel strongly about for the entire duration of the blog. Should everyone else consider that to be an example of morally corrupt and egotistical behavior on your part or does this mean that from this point forward you'll no longer be naming any names or current offfice holders?
By Jeff Gillenwater, at 8:04 AM, February 28, 2006
It has been a nice discussion and some agreement was made which is always good.
As for as the comments about those who mentioned names, I think "morally corrupt" is a pretty strong statement. I happen to know NA, not the we are bosom buddies, but have been acquainted for several years. He is a thoughtful, intellegent and caring person. His style does differ from mine though. He is more decisive and therefore blunt, at times to a fault. I purposely did not use names for two reasons. One is that I, as of yet, do not know enough about the individuals to call anyone out. The second goes back to my "style". With this particular discussion I felt it would add little and take away much. I attempt to find common ground with my "opponent"(poor word choice)and build from there.
I have not met Bluegill but my opinion of him, from his writings, is that anyone would be hard pressed to find a more reasonable person anywhere.
By Iamhoosier, at 8:21 AM, February 28, 2006
EE concedes that yes, communications problems come from both sides.
She focuses on the Mayor's role.
I respond by ofering CM Coffey as a prime example of council dysfunction.
EE says no, it's not proper for me to make such a reference.
Bluegill clearly explains the illogic of EE's position.
I'll add to that: It's hypocrisy EE. Each and every one of your "rules" has a differing interpretation when applied to your friends and your enemies.
By the way, and as a side note, there's a plan afoot to gather the neighborhood associations together for a summit on housing and other pertinent issues.
Have you been contacted? I'm assuming you remain head of the East End association?
Just trying to make sure you're included.
By The New Albanian, at 8:55 AM, February 28, 2006
Mistake correction
I really do know how to spell intelligent.
By Iamhoosier, at 9:17 AM, February 28, 2006
Again, New Albanian, if you do not like this blog, nor do you like what or how EE responds to questions, stay the hey out of Dodge, ya know what we mean.
We will not get into a name calling event with anyone over the onerous activity of any council member. We WILL not allow anyone to bastardize the very ones we feel are doing their jobs. You are welcome to say who you think may be part of the problems, but we disagree whole heartedly.
There must be an ill wind blowing, because I will stand along with EE about the Schmidts.
Not to bore you, but the first Council meeting I attended, the majority were back in the Clerk's office. Only one was sitting at the Council's table, removed from the BS. Let's see, Niemeier, Seabrook, Gibbons, etc., etc., were ALL in that room carrying on. We asked the lone man sitting there if we were at the right place, or was the meeting going on behind us. He responded by saying it sure sounded like it huh?
You can't tell people who have been around here playing these games as long as we have with these people who is for and by the taxpayers (ME) and who isn't! Shame you don't know and have that warm fuzzy feeling either.
Not all neighborhoods have neighborhood associations, only a lucky few. Another "all-inclusive" party, hey? Hope you will look at any facts or figures handed out; know you have a problemo with them.
Back to sewers and what we're going to do. You know some of those houses you are going to be looking at, before you try and save 'em, put them on the sewers first, okay? Thanks.
By Anonymous, at 10:03 AM, February 28, 2006
"Shame you don't know and have that warm fuzzy feeling either."
Hard to know when people use dollar signs instead of names ... but of course, that's jus' mah 'pinion.
By The New Albanian, at 10:59 AM, February 28, 2006
Dontcha jest luv those thar dollor sines? Dontcha jest luv countin' those there dollors whenz they hit that there cash e'tronic machine? Wez do to. And we'z thunk you reallys does that thange.
Ares you e'en capable of feelin wurm fuzzies? Maybe after a few of them thar beers?
How many of those SSO's are out by you at your biz and how many around in your neighborhood?
Our lil ole opinionated selves.
By Anonymous, at 12:07 PM, February 28, 2006
Ceece - You need to ask Tony Toran for a list of the neighborhood associations, or John Rosenbarger. The last administration accumulated ALL OF THAT INFO because they wanted to put an "umbrella" over them and you would have had to go to your neighborhood association to get anything done, rather than the City. Simply another layer of government was the way "we felt about it". Good luck. FYI, only.
By Anonymous, at 12:10 PM, February 28, 2006
Amen, Shirley. He's the only one we trust, completely. Shame they didn't go to the school where "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all".
And, no, there is no possible way they can back up anything they say. As they say, you point your finger at someone, there is about 3 of them pointing back at YOU.
Tell 'em Shirley. Though, deep down inside, I don't think the Schmidts need ANY defending. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
Jealousy, plain jealousy. Now, if they would just put THEIR MONEY where THEIR MOUTH is and put THEIR NAME out there, it would be more understandable. There is no reasoning nor logic with some.
If it wasn't for certain Council people, the taxpayers would be in a lot more **** than they are now. Unfortunately Shirley, the Schmidts seem to be some of the "very" few that can help taxpayers keep tracks of BONDS all the way back to 1991. And WE THANK THEM, THANK THEM, THANK THEM.
Good work Shirley. Somebody has to tell 'em!
By Anonymous, at 12:21 PM, February 28, 2006
Um, actually they collected that information in order to bring the neighborhood associations together to discuss common concerns. People in other cities do it all the time-- and it works. I met with a few of them who do it in Louisville last night. We're going to be travelling to Nashville in May to meet with people who fight the same neighborhood battles all over the country in order to share experiences and strategy.
You can check it out here.
Unfortunately, paranoia kept the previous attempt at organization from being successful. Neighborhood associations aren't government nor do they control anyone's ability to speak independently. When they network and work together, though, they can be a strong catalyst for positive change.
And you can bet that local neighborhood associations will soon be called together again to learn from each other and identify common goals. You'd be welcome to participate. If you don't currently belong to a neighborhood association, there are people who can help you start one or join an existing one.
By Jeff Gillenwater, at 12:47 PM, February 28, 2006
Yep, it's just a damn shame everyone doesn't belong to a "neighborhood" association, ain't it? That's the attitude we definitely don't have a use for, you got that one right. But, thanks for your opinion. We have ours, and you can attribute it to paranoia, whatever...
Hear on the Freedom of Speech blog there is news the '04 Audit is in. Let's see, maybe the exit interview would have been Valentine's Day, aaaahhhh. No wonder I had to have a beer that night, because I was in a bad funk!
Must have smelt it! Finally, finally.
Guess the budget for THIS year will be following shortly on the Audit for 04's heels! Hope the press is still on the mailing list to get the first public copy. Hope the rumor is true!
By Anonymous, at 1:35 PM, February 28, 2006
what else can happen:
Nor rumor....But Fact... 2005 Audit going on right now..Who is James going to blame now? Randy,roger,tony,tim? oh I believe it will be the dog ate it!
By Anonymous, at 3:17 PM, February 28, 2006
(Shrug) Well, it's been proven countless times in communities across America that neighborhood associations can be, as Bluegill said, catalysts for change.
I brought it up solely because I wanted EE to be sure that her East End organization is welcome to any such summit. Obviously, that's not because I agree with her on all issues, but because she has something to contribute to the topic.
You'd think that instead of attacking the concept, those not currently in such an organization would seek to learn more to see if such an organization might be of benefit to them.
Ah, but that's the New Albany Syndrom at its finest. Rock on, SOLNA.
By The New Albanian, at 3:43 PM, February 28, 2006
This all seems strangely familiar. An umbrella organization of Neighborhood Associations…a united effort to effect change……Hmmmmmm. OH YEAH, I REMEMBER!!!
I've already traveled this road before. In fact, I laid the bricks. Ask around.
About two years ago I organized 4 neighborhood associations together to work in tandem to get things done that the City administration was ignoring. Like cleaning up the alleys and addressing dilapidated structures, and safety issues.
I brought together Main St., East Spring, East End, and Silver Grove to form a united “umbrella” organization that we were calling "The East Side Neighborhood Association Coalition" that would represent many voters so the administration would be compelled to pay attention to what we were calling for, and be responsive.
After only a few meetings (but a lot of talking) it was obvious the 'Tony' was sent out to break up the alliance by smooth talking some of the neighborhood associations, and making them feel "special".
They received special attention, special "awards", and special considerations and administration participation in events.
So, they succeeded in busting up the "Neighborhood Association Coalition" that was being created to help the neighborhoods.
A Republican neighborhood became the greatest supporters of a Democratic administration, and the other neighborhood became the favorite child, so-to-speak, and practically became a part of the administration.
Two Neighborhood Associations I helped to get on their feet. I was the one who put together the 501C3 application for Silver Grove and got them approved on the first shot! I did their demographics study and gave a presentation so they could have the data, and understand it, that they would need to apply for grants.
I fixed East Spring’s 501C3 application after it was sent back unapproved.
I went to court with them about the body shop they worked so hard to get out of the neighborhood.
Yep, I’ve tried this before. Now someone has decided to take the ideas of this previous initiative and do it again, with changes I’m sure.
Not so sure I feel too “warm and fuzzy” about this.
In fact, I feel a bit violated.
Convince me why I shouldn't feel this way.
By East Ender, at 4:52 PM, February 28, 2006
EE,
Thanks for sharing your history with the associations. It helps me with background.
By Iamhoosier, at 5:14 PM, February 28, 2006
And there is no hidden agenda here, either! We told you, ask John Rosenbarger, Tony Toran (he attends a lot of 'em), DNA, each Council Rep, The Floyd County Historical Society, The Floyd County Library, the Tribune, etc. Shall we go on, or do you need more info? This info was gathered, just as Bluegill said, though we may disagree on some of the issues. Link to it, please.
Now, this isn't directed at any one person, got that? My ***.
By Anonymous, at 9:16 PM, February 28, 2006
P.S. We've remarked on this blog before about how we were shocked at the use of your four letter f*** word on your blog, which you promptly asked for the link to be deleted. We see you plan to use it on this blog, my such a Christian, right? This is my opinion, you are a hypocrite. Worse kind of Christian u can get, but I forgive u girlfriend. Go on with your bad self. Take care.
Don't take it personally, because on this blog, IT'S NOT PERSONAL -- IT'S JUST BUSINESS. Our $$$$$ we are looking for, our SEWERS we are trying to fix. Help me EastEnder. Think I know what you are talking about. Same games, different people. Been there, done that. Good luck. You do not need our help. Click that mouse another direction so we can get some brainstorming done here. Thanking you in advance, for your consideration, I remain
A Citizen/Ratepayer,Taxpayer of the City of New Albany.
By Anonymous, at 9:21 PM, February 28, 2006
The City actually paid about $10K a piece to do "Small Area Plans" of certain neighborhoods in the City. They know who's out there.
John Rosenbarger certainly has all this information at his fingertips. Lord knows they have maps of everything as well. Wouldn't that have been the easiest route to go? Or one of the other suggestions mentioned by "yeah, okay,..."
Strange I got a call a couple of weeks ago from an older gentleman who said he was with the East Spring Street Neighborhood Assoc. and they wanted to know what my neighborhood boundaries were, "...just info for a little project they're doing".
Of course, none of this is connected, and new albanian really does want to make sure my organization, and input is included in any "summit".
Well, I'll be darned! We've tried to include you folks too, in the search and rescue mission we are on for the monies and the truth of what's happening in New Albany.
Obviously, we are all just little 'ol innocent people with questions that we can't seem to get answers to, and a little bit of mis-communication.
It's real frustrating isn't it? When people won't give you the information you need, but insist that you go find it for yourself.
Well, speaking of getting information for ourselves, check out the Freedom of Speech blog at www.voiceofnewalbany.blogspot.com and read their latest posting.
Also, it will be re-printed here, in its entirety, with "Erik's" explicit permission.
Have a nice evening everyone.
By East Ender, at 11:21 PM, February 28, 2006
You, too, EastEnder...It's all coming out and about. The "heat is on, it's on the streets!".
Or, "Tell it like it is, don't let your...."
Echo that sentiment...have a nice eve NA.
By Anonymous, at 3:18 AM, March 01, 2006
While I have no knowledge if the "professor's" post is correct, it is hard to believe anyone who so obviously fakes their occupation in order to lend credence to their positions.
EE, you brought Erik up, not I, just commenting on your post.
By Iamhoosier, at 8:29 AM, March 01, 2006
gahan had it on the agenda the LAST TWO MEETINGS for a financial report from the sewer board members on the council----both declined---I'm sure he will put it on the agenda again---and I am sure they are very pissed at him for doing so---but someone has to tell the truth----kochert and seabrook want the mayor to do it---the mayor wants them to do it---politics
By Anonymous, at 5:12 PM, March 01, 2006
Somebody needs to do it. Whoever steps forward first might just be able to step out of the crosshairs of 'New Albany Politics'.
C'mon people, give us a report. Give us some answers. We've been waiting a long time.
The Mayor is the Chair of the Sewer Board. Kochert & Seabrook are members of the Board.
Why can't they collectively give a report, along with anyone else in there who's on the Sewer Board.
One question: If it's on the agenda for a report, how can 3 members of that entity refuse to give a report?
By East Ender, at 1:32 AM, March 02, 2006
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