Speak Out Loud NA

Friday, December 16, 2005

A New Year, A New Beginning

Readers, it is vitally important that we all be aware of the business to be conducted at the next City Council meeting, on January 2nd, 2006, the first meeting of the new year. We MUST make sure our voices are heard before this meeting takes place. The public interests and perceptions must be considered in the process of naming a new City Council President.
The first meeting of every year includes the nomination and selection, by Council Members votes, of a new City Council President. This meeting is already raising great concern, as the names that are circulating as projected nominees are...(remove all sharp objects from within your reach), Donnie Blevins (they MUST be kidding), a City employee already embroiled in controversy, and Dan Coffey who has served 7 years on the City Council, and holds no position within City employment that could cause his vote to be compromised in order to protect his job.
Folks, there is one very simple concept to consider here...
Under NO circumstances should ANY City employee be handed the reins as President of the City Council. This would create a situation fraught with possibilities of unethical behavior due to the control that could be exerted by certain authority figures over the sustainability of the persons primary employment.
Furthermore, as it is, City employees sitting as general Council Members are practically inviting trouble, as their employment with the City will certainly carry some weight in their decision making and voting on matters that directly, or indiretly, impact the departments they are associated with.
Already, we've witnessed complications that arose from City employee and Council Member, Donnie Blevins who was curiously moved from the doomed Sanitation Department over to the Street Department without regard to proper procedures of senority based departmental transfers.
This move was percieved as nothing less than political favortism, and has resulted in growing tensions among Sanitation workers and Street Department workers alike. There is even talk of Union grievences being filed.
Indeed, it was recently published in the Courier; "...that [Garner] moved Blevins because of tensions within the (sanitation) department." As the article further explained, the situation that caused the debacle stemmed from two reprimands [Blevins] issued as assistant supervisor in the Sanitation Department, that caused bad feelings in the department.
As Ann posted on her blog, "Diggin' in the Dirt", concerning the situation:
"...it sticks in the craw of several people I have spoken with that Councilman/Sanitation Dept. Assistant Supervisor Donnie Blevins was transferred out of Sanitation shortly before the bid was awarded, thus avoiding the possibility of the aforementioned pay/benefit cut. There are other workers with greater seniority than Blevins."
Even Jack Messer, as a City Police Officer, is straddling the fence by holding a seat on the Council, because he is percieved as having too much influence in too many arenas of City business. This caused great concern when he was considered for the position of Code Enforcement Officer, and eventually led to a great deal of anomosity as tempers flared on both sides of the issue.
The City Council is the city's legislative and fiscal control body. According to the written rules of Indiana Association of Cities & Towns, "Council has the authority to fix salaries of all elected officials in the City. The Council also establishes the annual salaries of members of the City's Police and Fire Departments."
I ask you, does Jack Messer really even belong on the Council, as a matter of principle?
In contrast, CM Dan Coffey holds no position of City employment, and has seven years experience sitting on the City Council. He knows the condition of the City, and he knows no fear when it comes to bringing contentious issues to light, and asking pointed questions of the Mayor and other Council members.
Furthermore, the Council President has the authority to call for an audit, something the people of the City have been asking for, but the City has failed to provide. The Council President also has the authority to call for investigations into other matters, such as the sanitary sewer department, that no one seems to have the answers to. The public deserves to be provided with a Council that will act as the checks and balance system against an administration that has acted irresponsible in matters of financial responsibilities and political favortism appointments to positions that are filled with unqualified personel.
I have no doubt that CM Coffey will utilize these opportunities to finally provide a clear picture to the public, as well as to the administration, of where the City stands in regards to our fiscal health, along with the procedures of conducting City business in the proper fashion.
He may be brash, and he may indeed be guilty of a bit of grandstanding at times, but I would still rather put the the next year of this faltering City in the hands of a bold personality than I would those of a meek and unknowledgeable newcomer, just because he is NOT Dan Coffey.
It's time to step up and take the bull by the horns, and there is no one better for that job than Dan Coffey.
Don't get me wrong folks, I am not a Dan Coffey "fan", and we have had our share of differences along the way. However, I am willing to put aside those differences, and step back to look at what the City needs as a whole. This isn't about personality conflicts, this is business. It's time this City gets down to some serious business.
Finally, it only makes sense that the outgoing President step into the Vice President role, as CM Schmidt did last year, as it is their duty to conduct the business of the Council in the event of an absence of the President elect. Procedural matters would then be able to proceed without hesitation, and knowledge of conducting the business of the Council would be a given circumstance. This method would also provide a gradual course of blending back in with the other general Council members for the outgoing President. Jeff Gahan should, in my opinion, be given the Vice-President position.
Dan Coffey still has things to learn. Perhaps a teamwork approach can be beneficial to all parties concerned.

72 Comments:

  • Eastender, don't think we have to wait 'til the beginning of the year to find out what is really going on.

    The Tribune article for Sunday pretty much sums up what is going down, downtown.

    What is going on seems obvious to both a Democrat and Republican veteran, lack of communication. That, and the ones that rode in on Garner's coat tails can't seem to make their own stand.

    Ought to be a great New Year, with the BS already up to our shoulders.

    Thank you, SOLNA; without you, a lot of people JUST WOULD NOT KNOW WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON IN OUR FAIR CITY. Thanks, and isn't there a lot more to come?

    Desperations and Drunko's will be hard pressed to come up with ANY answers when this literally "C.R.A.P." hits the fan.

    Thanks for your comments. You have got to know that out of the choices for Council President of Blevins, Messer or Coffee, Coffee is the only one that will conduct the City Council meetings in proper conduct. Thank you for allowing our opinion.!! And we sure do appreciate yours.

    SPEAK OUT LOUD, NEW ALBANY...'FORE IT'S TOOO LATE.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:02 AM, December 17, 2005  

  • Laura, you are right, City Employees should not sit in the Council President's position. This would lead to more criticism that those Council members are being controlled by the
    Mayor.

    We have had a very difficult time in New Albany this past year. A City Employee in the President's chair would lead to more problems.

    In fact, it would make city business
    more difficult and lead to more
    problems for the Mayor and his administration.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:19 AM, December 17, 2005  

  • "we have the facts." - a satirical exploration constituting:
    WE have some good intentions, namely those posting under their own names (including the moderator.)
    WE have class apprehensions, fears of unknown or challenging entities.
    WE have a number of folks using this forum for unabashed political means or ambitions (including Tim)
    WE have a penchant for sensation and self-importance which may self-destruct i.e. the Rumpke Insider Story.
    WE have myriad positions and perspectives, but little facts -- self-evident or otherwise

    By Blogger jon faith, at 11:32 AM, December 17, 2005  

  • Dan Coffey - You have to be joking.

    Come on now.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:46 PM, December 17, 2005  

  • We wish we were kidding about everything we have put out here!
    EVERYTHING. Unfortunately, we are not kidding.

    Talk with your Council reps (the at-larges and YOUR Rep) and see which ones are calling around to get the votes for Council President; happens first Monday in January -- 7:30 pm.

    Ya might be surprised; I'm not sure anything would surprise me. Our opinions only. (Gotta wonder if they will try and make this issue into a "conspiracy" again undertaken by public and Council members.)

    We, the public, need to do more communicating with our "REPS"! Again, just our opinions.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:15 PM, December 17, 2005  

  • I assert that it's more than just our "opinions". The matter of Council president is in fact an uncompromisable position.
    No one could truly propose that a City employee should, or could, hold such a powerful seat.
    We have already experienced some problems with City employees who sit on the City Council as elected members.
    One cannot be a proponent of advancing such a situation if they actually have the good of the City at heart, rather than some personal political agenda.
    Then again, why should we think the Mayor could suddenly start making good decisions.
    We should fully expect that the bad decisions will continue.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 2:28 PM, December 17, 2005  

  • There is no way a City Employee should be Council President. We believe it would be a great conflict of interest insofar as Council controls the purse strings. What a thought!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:56 PM, December 17, 2005  

  • My apologies, I guees I can consider it a fresh fancy from your escape-and-evasion from Richard Florida's test group; one can't be too careful when the Creative Class is at large, can we?

    By Blogger jon faith, at 9:57 PM, December 17, 2005  

  • Just for the record, I believe that prior to adjournment last Thursday, the council set the first January meeting date as the 5th, not the 2nd.

    I didn't hear why this was done, but you may want to check.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 10:22 PM, December 17, 2005  

  • Bad decisions will continue to be made only if the public outcries for adequate and accurate information continue to go unheaded.
    Everyone who cares about New Albany should be frequently calling their respective Council representative, as well as At-Large Council reps., insisting that the public will not stand idly by and watch an incompetent Mayor take this city down the road to ruin.
    Let them know we will not be silent, nor will we be complacent.
    We will however be persistent in our demands for accountability.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:14 PM, December 17, 2005  

  • My opinion

    This entire Administration is nothing but a "Conflict of Interest."
    Mayor Garner is the problem and not the solution.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:27 PM, December 17, 2005  

  • Thank u New Albanian, for the correction regarding when Council meets at the first of the year. We are looking at the same thing.
    Thanks.
    More later...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:04 AM, December 18, 2005  

  • Check out the article by Chris Morris in Saturday's Tribune:
    "Garner, Council Members Differ on Progress" -communication seems to be a problem area-
    http://www.news-tribune.net/local/local_story_351160113.html
    You will have to copy and paste this link into your address bar, or use the Tribune link on the front page of this blog, then click on the article title from there.
    It is an account of Garner's 'State of the City' report given at last Thursday's Council meeting.
    (So very glad I skipped that one)
    It gives a pretty telling look at the situation that is going on between the Mayor and the City Council (virtually none).
    Councilmen, Seabrook, Kochert, and Blevins all have their say, along with the Mayor's point of view of the great job he's doing getting a handle on everything down there (NOT).
    It also contains a reminder of the upcoming Redevelopment meeting at 2:30PM next Tuesday, when an update on the Scribner Place Problems, er..., Project, will be given.
    Isn't it nice of them to hold these meetings at a time when everyone can attend?
    After all, it's only a $17 million pet project that we will be paying for over the next 17 years, only, we didn't get to vote on it.
    I think the least they could do would be to accomodate our schedules for a little update every now and then.
    Especially since they will be using our property txes to guarantee the bonds (gee whiz).
    Happy Christmas Everyone!
    Hang onto your money, you're going to need it for the garbage rate increase and the sewer rate increase.
    Mean 'Ol Mayor Grinch, stole our Christmas.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 3:21 AM, December 18, 2005  

  • east ender

    It has been discussed the Street Dept. is next on the Mayor's list for losses.

    So if this is true where will Councilman Blevins be transfered to then?

    Since Mr. Toran now has less work to do. Maybe he could replace Mr. Greams dad who was terminated last week. He would look great following the street sweeper giving tickets. Since he enjoys all his so called Power!

    2006 Should be really interesting!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:36 AM, December 18, 2005  

  • If Council members can't be city employees, then city employees have less rights than non-employees cause they can't run for office. If city employees who are Council members can't be Council president, then those who elected them have fewer rights than others, cause their reps can't be president.

    The argument doesn't make sense.

    Also, Coffee is a mean, vendictive person. He'd be a more of a mess as coucil president than he is talking his head off at every meeting!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:13 AM, December 18, 2005  

  • Actually, I was wrong about the date.

    The meeting is the 9th -- not the 2nd, not the 5th, but the 9th.

    I must have heard it wrong, but I knew it had been changed.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:24 AM, December 18, 2005  

  • Dear oldernewalbanian -
    I'm still rolling about your comments. It's so funny, it's scary. Most true stories are, huh?
    Here's the deal on nominations for Council President:
    Of course a lot of talk and posturing goes on for a while among the Council Members, and the Mayor and his boys (remember there is no direct communication between the Mayor and Council Members), who all give their suggestions on who to nominate.
    At the first meeting of the new year, the Council themselves nominate candidates for the Presidents seat (public has no say, or vote).
    Once nominations are made, a vote is taken, and the person with the majority vote wins the seat.
    They also nominate, and vote for, a Vice-President, which I maintain should automatically go to the outgoing President.
    Then, at the very same meeting, they actually get up and change seats!!! Amazing isn't it?
    If you were there last year you might remember the blundering by President elect Gahan who, after taking his seat, really had no idea how to run the meeting.
    He had to be prompted by the Council attorney on what to do next (jitters maybe).
    He had only been on the Council for 1 year, so you can't really blame him for not knowing exactly how to proceed.
    But, wouldn't it be a smoother transition if the President elect took his seat at the FOLLOWING meeting? Just a thought.
    Anyway, hope I answered your questions, and thank you so much for giving us the best laugh out loud we've had all week.
    We needed it!

    By Blogger East Ender, at 2:44 PM, December 18, 2005  

  • oldernewalbanian -
    Oops, I forgot to address the Blevins, Coffey thing.
    This will require another lenghty response, so I will have to return to this question later today.
    Meanwhile, I'm sure there's lots of folks who would love to give their opinions on that one.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 2:50 PM, December 18, 2005  

  • coffey is an buffoon now wonder you want him to be council president

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:51 PM, December 18, 2005  

  • anonymous 2:51 - huh?

    By Blogger East Ender, at 2:51 PM, December 18, 2005  

  • coffey aint got no smarts stupid

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:58 PM, December 18, 2005  

  • "ain't got no" he he he who's stupid here?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:18 PM, December 18, 2005  

  • Note:
    The common council exercises the city legislative authority (IC 36-4-4-4), makes the laws that govern the city, and appropriates the city's monies.
    The council fixes the annual salaries of all elected officials of the city...(IC 36-4-7-2).
    The council also establishes the annual salaries of members of the city's police and fire departments (IC 36-8-3-3)re: Jack Messer.
    Source:
    Indiana Assoc. of Cities & Towns
    Also,
    Many councils have created a third type of committee, not part of the common council, known as an advisory committee, or citizens' advisory committee.
    These committes often provide valuable public input, and are frequently employed to address issues that may become particularly troublesome for the community.
    Subjuect to Indiana Open Door Law.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 3:44 PM, December 18, 2005  

  • I've read a lot of nice banter here but now I'm more confused than ever. Are we living in a "fair city" or a "faltering city"? Sounds an awful like the half full/half empty glass theory to me.

    By Blogger Highwayman, at 9:51 PM, December 18, 2005  

  • Please tell me Coffey is not seriously being considered for President. His IQ leaves a lot to be desired.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:29 AM, December 19, 2005  

  • MAYOR JAMES GARNER SCHEDULE FOR DECEMBER. (YOU ALL KNOW HE IS ON THE JOB 24/7)

    Dec.1: Blanch carccass from Thanksgiving turkey. Spray paint gold, turn up side down and use as sleigh to hold City Christmas cards and raise our fees.

    Dec. 2: Hire the Mormon Tabernacle Choir to record outgoing Christmas message for the mayors answering machine and raise our fees.

    Dec. 3: Using candlewick and hand gilded miniature pine gones,fashion cat-tails,flog Gardnener and raise our fees.

    Dec. 4: Order Repaint Sistine Chapel ceiling in ecru, with mocha trim and raise our fees.

    Dec. 5: Get the city check book out to do some early christmas shopping and raise our fees.

    Dec. 6: Fax family Chrstmas newsletter to Pulitzer committe for consideration, and checks on the progress of Scribner Place and raise our fees.

    Dec. 7: Debug Windows '95 in the mayor's office and raise our fees.

    Dec. 10: Align carpets in his 3 floor office to adjust for curvature of Earth and raise our fees.

    Dec. 11: Order Faberge eggs for his favorite snitches/employees and raise our fees.

    Dec. 12: Re-decorate his office to impress holiday well wishers and raise our fees.

    Dec. 13: Order hams,cakes,cookies for employees/family Christmas treats and raise our fees.

    Dec. 14: Have the City inspector install plumbing in the new City's gingerbread house and raise our fees.

    Dec. 15: Replace air in his city suv tires with Glade "holiday scents" in case his tires get shot out at all the malls and raise our fees.

    Dec. 17: Mail out the Mayors Christmas cards to all the new homeowners: I need your vote in 2007 and raise our fees.

    Dec. 19: Fill City employees stockings for christmas with re-elect Jimmy for Mayor bumper stickers and pads and raise our fees.

    Dec. 20: Ordering new truck mats for his old dorango and raise our fees.

    Dec. 21: Drain the city water, refill with mulied cider, orange slices and cinnamon sticks and screams "SABOTAGE" and raise our fees.

    Dec. 22: Float votive christmas scent candles in his toilet tank and raise our fees.

    Dec. 24: Our Mayor does his annual good deed. Goes to several stores including Wally World. Be seen engaged in last minute Christmas shopping, thus making many people feel less inadequate then they really are and raise our fees.

    Dec. 27: Privatizes the Street Dept. Police Dept. and the Fire Dept. and raise our fees.

    Dec. 31: New Years Eve! Gives his entire staff their resolutions for 2006.

    Merry Christmas
    Mr. Mayor

    Thanks for raising our fees!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:08 AM, December 19, 2005  

  • anonymous 6:08
    This is absolutely "Great."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:46 AM, December 19, 2005  

  • If Coffey is elected President, who will be the Vice-president??.....he is going to have to have someone to explain what all the big words mean......

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:36 AM, December 19, 2005  

  • Mr. Webster could be VP.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:54 AM, December 19, 2005  

  • Ceece -
    Gee, I don't have a copy of the agenda for the Jan. 9th, 2006 Council meeting yet. Do you?
    Guess not, or you wouldn't be asking what was on it.
    Who do you think might have that?
    Who do you think might have already created that?
    We know about the Council president/vice pres. elections because that is standard proceedure for the first meeting of the year.
    Besides, if Garner's ambitions for the coming year, or his agenda announcements, are anything like his campaign promises they won't mean anything anyway.
    I suggest you check with Randy from Desperations. I'm pretty sure he's the Mayor's new advisor now.
    He'll know.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 1:20 PM, December 19, 2005  

  • ceese

    Maybe the reason your not getting your question answered. Which I will say it is a great question. It could be all the so called cheap shots you write on the other blogs about people on Speak Out Loud NA!
    Contrary to what you and others might think alot of people will remain anonymous for a good reason on this blog. Alot of you all think it is a joke and alot of us do not find it humorous at all. Cause we sure hope to make real believers out of all of you in the near future...alot of people have put alot of jobs on the line....Alot of you do not even have a real clue what is going on.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:24 PM, December 19, 2005  

  • That must be Randy calling.
    Will you please let us know what he's decided should be on the agenda?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:54 PM, December 19, 2005  

  • ceese

    To update you on the comments made by the Mayor.(last council meeting- please read)

    New Albany Mayor James Garner gave his State of the City address thursday night at the City Council meeting.
    Garner highlighted several accomplishments during his first two years of office including the ongoing progress with the Scribner Place Project.(The original project goes to Overton-So this is an accomplishment by attaching NA property taxes to the bond money?)
    That downtown revitalization plan calls for the construction of a YMCA and aquatic center. (THE CONTRACT WAS BETWEEN CEASAR'S-YMCA-REDEVELOPMENT. NOT THE CITY OF NEW ALBANY)nor property tax bills.
    Construction is expected to begin 2006.

    Other highlights include the addition of a code-enforcement officer,It took Mayor Garner 2 years for code-enforcement and Chief harl I week to break the law)
    By not following the procedures. So how can he claim this as an accomplishment.improvements with the building commissioner's office and the completion of the new fire department headquarters at east fourth and Spring street. (Now ceese you also know this was again another Overton Project) And also the City got ripped off on this deal. Talk to the fireman that work there. It is still not complete. I think after 3 Million dollars were spent. (So how can that be an Garner accomplishment?)

    Garner also saif the police departrment has created a new neighborhood program-Plans and Programs- which was implemented this year.(So how can that also be his accomplishment?) Did you notice Police Dept has created..I guess then if you are the Mayor you get all the credit? Now stay with us ceese were almost done..
    The Mayor also said he has had to deal with several tough issues such as the recent switch of the sanitation department to a private company and the finances of the sewer utility. Mayor James Garner was given the solution to solve the problem to fix the sanitation problem and he refused to listen and done it his way! And his way will cost us all and himself re-election. And you ceese can take that to the bank!
    Now the sewer Department. Get ready to see what is going to come out on the Sewer Department in 2006. And believe me it will not be pretty when it comes out.

    "It's necessary for us to keep our finger on the pulse of our city today, but plan and prepare for the whole city of the future," Garner said, "The future of New Albany is bright."

    But the one main thing Ceese he never said was this: FACT: The City of New Albany is Bankrupt!

    You need to call everyone of the Council Members and ask them. You need to read reports and you yourself should ask him the hard questions.

    The answer to your question go to the City webpage and click on agendas. It usely comes out a couple days before a Council meeting. But since you know Randy I understand Marci faxes it to him. But that is your answer.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:05 PM, December 19, 2005  

  • east ender

    4:40 is back..tiny tim! My
    question to you anonymous 4:40 when you have sat on the back row at Council Meetings how come you do not have the nerve to make these comments to them in public?
    And you call people on this blog "Cowards" Timmy.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:13 PM, December 19, 2005  

  • Folks, I really hope that no one outside of NA is reading this. Hopefully not many in NA either.

    Calling east ender and other idiots. Calling people stupid. Picking on sentence fragments. Using demeaning nicknames.

    Think I am on "your" side--think again.

    Calling NAC a drunk. Commenting on a divorce. Calling "them" idiots, sissies, etc. C.R.A.P. corrupt and lord know what else.

    I think the "progressives" need to let up a little on the satire. There is a lot of good stuff written on "those" blogs but many won't read it or get so mad they miss the message. Not saying eliminate but lighten up a litte.
    Satire has it's place but a litte goes a long way. Sometimes it is not satire. Some is just downright mean. That goes for some of the posters there also.

    I think the SOLNA crowd needs to let up also. East ender, I am a little disappointed that you are using a demeaning nickname for a business in downtown NA. Someone else urged people to buy books on-line. You may not like everything he has to say but give the man credit. What have most of you done in the last year to bring people downtown? So what if he is advising the mayor? I have no idea if he is or not but I do know the man is pretty smart. Go read some of the articles on his blog. Have an open mind. You may still not agree with him but I believe you will see some substance there. Same goes for NAC. I have to hold a dictionary when I read most of his writing but he does make some good points when he is serious.

    East ender, Shirley, and $$$$$$$$$
    have their substance at times also. They are not always correct and neither is NAC, all4word, and others. Or me for that matter.

    If you made it this far, you probably think that I am stupid, an idiot, naive, have no grammer/spelling skills or just useless. That's OK--just keep it to yourself

    By Blogger Iamhoosier, at 5:43 PM, December 19, 2005  

  • TO IAMHOOSIER:

    Appreciate your comments. WE are trying to calm this blog down by taking the politics out of the equation, but sometimes the issues dictate the political winds in this city.
    Twas nice of you to say some of us (talking about one of them being me $$$$$) have our points at times; but I'm not going to keep my information to myself anylonger; and I hope you will realize one day we are speaking the truth.
    Our opinions. Thank you for yours.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:10 PM, December 19, 2005  

  • in 10,000 B.C. man became a taker vs. a leaver when we switched from hunter-gatherer to farmer, so do you think that any of your politics really matters?

    We have an illusion of freedom abut dont really have freedom because our actions took us out of balance with mother earth, so all of this pettiness about the mayor is your illusion and your sense that your blogging will make this city better.

    it appears to me that this mayor has grasped the true spirit of origin of the species and is doing what should have been done long ago, he is making the tough decisions to lay a foundation for the future down that you little people (The Takers) will destroy.

    You are the reason our species is a failure.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:57 AM, December 20, 2005  

  • Sure am glad I'm reading Jimmy Carter's new book out. He addresses people JUST LIKE YOU. Too bad. Sorry ya feel that way. Have a Good Evening...poor thing!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:27 AM, December 20, 2005  

  • The dumbing down of New Albany
    Many small nonproductive towns have a brain flow problem. Bright students go away, often far away, to college, and then guess what--most don't come back. The job infrastructure isn't there to support them. States like Iowa are beginning to have modern ghost towns, much worse than New Albania. Iowa is in such bad staits that it is offering scholarships to students that will stay in Iowa after they graduate. Well, when the brain power leaves, what do you have left??? The brain dead little people like the ones on this blog. Thank u Roger for staying in this god forsaken blighted town, but u need to figure out how to bring the brain power back.
    Roland of Gilead

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:57 AM, December 20, 2005  

  • Dear $$$$$$$$$$$,

    See, there goes my bad grammar(smile).

    My "keep it to yourself" was supposed to refer to anyone who thought I was stupid, an idiot, etc. It's ok to think it but I think it is counterproductive to say/write it.

    Opinions, ideas and analysis ARE what I am looking for. I think many others are also. A little humor helps. Courtesy helps alot.

    Merry Christmas,
    Iamhoosier

    By Blogger Iamhoosier, at 8:21 AM, December 20, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:21 PM, December 20, 2005  

  • Before moving on to our next posting, I would like to respond to some of the comments that have been left here in recent days concerning the "atmosphere" of discord that, at times, permeate these blogs.
    It is a condition which is regretful, and most irritating, but worst of all, downright useless in the entire scheme of things: Issues that affect the quality of life in New albany.
    However, it is a tactic, well used by the "Baylorites", to move the discourse off issues of point, and into the realm of personal hostility, which takes the attention away from the failings of our current Mayoral management.
    If these are the exact results intended, they are well executed.
    Now, for those of you who think it is a "cheap shot" for me to call the "other" faction by a monicker that encompasses the entire group of harassers as one cooperative association... let me remind you of some the titles used to name "us" (a group of concerned citizens):
    spitwad blogyard, the untutored, the inbred and the envious, obstructionists, Luddites, Trog Sham(an), troglodytes, trog blog, no progress at any price faction, EastdistEnded, anonymous graffiti artists, local rant blog, masked thought vandals, anonymous cowards, etc., etc., etc.
    So, I take particular offense at people who want to chastize folks here who sometimes succumb to the defensive mechanisms provoked by the name-calling, the insults, the degrading personal attacks that come with rapid-fire succession from the folks who disagree with our point of view.
    We always try to ignore, ignore, ignore, and simply go on about the issues bring discussed, and we try not to allow the mud slinging to escalate, as has been evident in my frequent admonishments of those who resort to the same tactics that were used to infuriate them in the first place.
    The things we fuss about here are the ineptitudes of the people who have been put into positions of managing this city without having the proper qualifications or knowledge.
    These are public figures who have a responsibility to be held accountable to the people of the city.
    Individual citizens, who have the will, and now the means, to Speak Out Loud about their discontent with these public officials, should not be subjected to personal insults and attempts to call out their identity just so they can be more personally attacked.
    These people have NOT put themselves up for public scrutiny as our elected officials have. So, YES, there IS a difference between saying the Mayor is dysfunctional, Tony Toran is a drain on our economic resources, and calling out unfair political favortism for Donnie Blevins, vs. calling an unknown citizen an uneducated fool only because they have a different view of the political system in New Albany.
    Just take a look at the ANONYMOUS comments of 12:57AM, and 6:57AM.
    Tell me, what is the purpose of degrading the people of this city?
    Why can't people speak their minds about how they feel their elected officials are doing at their jobs, without being visciously attacked?
    The people who write this junk are malevolent tormentors.
    This Mayor could have done nothing more disastrous to assure his ouster from the 3rd floor, than to align himself with these pompous fools.
    In that regard, I suppose we should thank them. They have made our goals very attainable.
    CHANGE is exactly what we are advocating for.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 3:35 PM, December 20, 2005  

  • Has anyone ever considered that maybe it's the methodology used to expouse the opinons, rather than the opinons themselves, that contribute to the problem?

    When an opinion is expressed in a well-spoken or written manner with any sort of logically arranged reasoning backing it up, no one pokes fun at it. In fact, it's often acknowledged as well done by people who disagree. When it's expressed as an obviously erroneous statement of fact or in the total abscence of related facts, though, it takes a beating.

    Just wondering, as it seems pretty noticeable to me.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 5:31 PM, December 20, 2005  

  • Eastender,

    I am extemely disappointed in you. SSSSSS and Shirley at least seemed to get the point of my poorly written message. I wrote about BOTH sides. If you will remember back, in one of my very first posts I said that I thought the false link on NAC was just plain wrong. Did you happen to notice that the next day a correct link was established? I have no knowledge if my post had anything to do with it but.....

    For the life of me I cannot understand the ranting in your 3:35 post. There are just as many issues brought up on the "other" blogs along with some stuff that I covered in an above post. Is it only your way or the highway?

    It's your blog. You can do what you want. I was just here to learn. I am not aligned with any faction. Never will be 100%.

    By Blogger Iamhoosier, at 6:15 PM, December 20, 2005  

  • Laura, go back and look at your own early posts, and some of this might become a tad clearer to you.

    SOLNA began operations in late April, 2005, with Laura announcing that her blog would be a community soapbox, and that all could participate, going so far as to request that anyone wishing to have posting privileges should let her know, and she would include them as part of the team.

    Look back at the SOLNA posts through May 23, and you will see that all participants with perhaps a single exception or two were registered with blogger.com. Matters were civil, and discussions were taking place.

    At NA Confidential, through the first part of the year (at least through April 22), much the same was true. There were few anonymous comments made, and plenty of good discussions. When SOLNA started, NAC welcomed it, and NAC asked to be included as part of the posting privilege offered by Laura. She said yes, but never followed through.

    Looking back on it, April 22 was a turning point. On NA Confidential, there were two comments (all capital letters, very accusatory toward the administration) posted under the name Taxpayer. Later, this morphed into Concern Taxpayer, who shortly thereafter made the famous (and still not unrescinded) false accusation that Randy and I came out of the mayor’s office prior to a council meeting. Obviously, lies lead to hard feelings.

    As I’ve pointed out before, my views about anonymity did not first arise in 2005. It’s been a consistent theme with me for over 20 years, ever since I led the struggle to have the ‘Bune alter its policy (it did). In May, I began to grapple with anonymity as expressed on my own blog, and formulated a policy that I’m still enforcing. Laura differs with this, and of course that’s her privilege, but I very much disagree with her reasoning. So it goes.

    At SOLNA, the May 23 thread is the turning point, because in it an anonymous comment differed with NAC (“the minority”), and was followed by my differing with anonymity, which led to tempers flaring and Laura eventually denying me posting privileges (and, “banning” the free speech she claims to uphold by banning myself, bluegill and perhaps others).

    Looking back dispassionately at all this, it’s fairly obvious to see that what happened on SOLNA evolved directly and necessarily from what was happening at NA Confidential. In the beginning, my viewpoint with respect to the problems in New Albany seemed to mesh somewhat with those of the “mad as hell” crowd, although if you look closely, it’s easy to see that it was first and foremost my thoughts in opposition to the Mayor that caused so many people to think I was one of them.

    I’ve noted before that just about all of you were eager to be my bosom buddy when you thought I agreed with you. The smiles, the handshakes … now … well, let’s just say that it was starting to change for the worse long before the anonymous/anti-anonymous “mud slinging” that Laura refers to.

    From the moment I saw the reality of the local situation and backed away from the undeserved persecution of the Mayor – from the moment I began to focus scrutiny on underachieving, grandstanding members of the council as impediments to progress -- I knew perfectly well that I wasn’t going to get anything approximating fair treatment from anyone with an opposing view, and this was absolutely manifested in the anonymous blog comments that began to turn up on NAC, the ones attacking me, which in turn led to my strict comments policy, and finally to so many of the bad words that have passed back and forth since then. All this leaked over onto SOLNA, and the May 23 thread is best evidence of that.

    It’s been downhill from there, and that’s too bad for all of us. New Albany suffers because of these petty hatreds and unmitigated stubbornness. Mr. Seabrook was dead right when he said that too many people are fighting over the past, and not looking ahead to the future.

    I spent two hours tonight with a real estate agent who’s busting his butt for downtown redevelopment, who’s talked two or three building owners into getting on board with potential plans for movement, who works with and credits Paul Wheatley for doing a good job -- and we were joined by a restaurant veteran who’s about to do marvelous stuff downtown that will draw people from Louisville to dine and drink right here in NA. Things are getting ready to happen downtown, and I’m pleased to be here for the reawakening.

    Yep, and you never hear about things like this on SOLNA. Never, never, never. Just the rancor, the loathing and the negativity of anonymous, angry people fighting lost battles from the 70’s and 80’s, and being openly resentful of anyone who displays the capability not just to subsist, but to succeed at something. New Albany doesn’t succeed because the people here hate themselves and don’t believe in success. Like I said, that’s too bad, because it dooms out children – but I suppose that’s James’s fault, too?

    To summarize, it should be understood beyond any reasonable doubt that prior to Laura enabling and exalting anonymity, there were few if any bad feelings on SOLNA; that it was she, not I, who sought to suppress free speech by withdrawing the offer of SOLNA participation (later censoring participants); that “defensive mechanisms” are a two-way street, especially when the first mud was slung at a known citizen by an anonymous poster (as has been the case here too many times to even count); and that “public scrutiny” can be conducted in a civilized manner, not as a sort of open season on elected officials.

    Thanks for the space. I promise not to run this on the front page of NAC and cause further embarrassment UNLESS you decide to censor me again.

    One more thing. I don’t do reprisals. What I do is sit down and talk to people over a beer and a pizza, and try to reach consensus, or at least some way of agreeing to disagree. No one who knows me will tell you differently, and yes, everyone knows my name, but it’s hard to have such a conversation with someone who won’t come out from behind the bushes.

    Maybe it’s not me who doesn’t want to learn, eh?

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 10:24 PM, December 20, 2005  

  • To The OlderNewAlbanian, I've never been able to talk with you since you have moved; can't tell you how sorry we are we couldn't help. "They" will get their's, right? What "comes" around goes "around", right? Hang in there; love your writing. We will keep trying to, those the years are passing us by!!!!! Getting tooooo old for this stuff.....

    To Bluegill: Methodology used at public citizens/speakers expense? Satire is one thing; using a citizen to attack Council members you don't necessarily like is an entirely different issue (to me anyway).

    To New Albanian: What can one say to you that will let you know "most" of us aren't your enemies. Some of us have had a beer with you, you weren't aware of it. To me, and some other citizens, we choose not to respond to the other two blogs, for some GOOD personal reasons. You may not fear retailiation; you may not fear loss of your income; you may not fear the harrassment; you may not see OR feel what we have found out the hard way.

    When I heard and witnessed you telling another citizen, be though it may have been a council person's wife you didn't like, I will never forget your statement "I don't deal with numbers", and you refused the info.
    My husband said if you don't believe in the numbers, you shouldn't be charging for your beer.

    Knowing members of the New Albany Potty Police you chose to ridicule in one of your "satirical" moments, we are anxious for the pictures to show on here where your "crap" went after you got off that pot.

    And, I guess my last opinion concerns Desperations and Drunko's. Let's see, who started the satire? Why didn't you like it? Wasn't it about as amusing as what some people on this blog have been subjected to on yours?

    Have a good evening drinking your pints and figuring out how the hey you are going to work "out" this dilemna that has you guys all stirred up that's happening at the next Council Meeting!!!!

    Our Opinions Only.

    P.S. You got chalk boards, too?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:07 AM, December 21, 2005  

  • iamhoosier -
    Sorry you're so disappointed in me. But, I think you have mistaken my comments regarding several recent postings as a personal response to only your posting.
    I appreciate your contributions to the open forum discussions, and I appreciate that you do not engage in the mud slinging tactics that others do.
    My "ranting"(?), however, was intended to reflect the disparate intentions of the blogs as well as the disproportionate levels of animosity displayed therein.
    Everyone, of course, is entitled to his/her opinions. Yes, even those who disagree with me.
    You may have noticed, as a visitor of all blogs, that I do not make appearances at NAC in attempts to interfere with the discourse of opinions purported there.
    Back to the issue of disparate intentions, opinions of issues (SOLNA) are quite a different matter than opinions of other's opinions (NAC).
    Roger does indeed touch on issues at NAC, but in such a backhanded manner that no one dares to disagree with his assessments.
    If you notice, all who regularly participate there, are of the same opinion on issues.
    Now to the disproportionate animosity. Any of us at SOLNA who would dare to hoist up an opinion counter to that of NAC, are immediately and abashedly tagged as mentally inferior and incapable of possessing any real knowledge.
    So, you see, it's not, "my way or the highway", rather it's NAC's way, or shut up and get out of the way, so all the newer, smarter people can run this town and not have to answer to anyone.
    Sorry Sweetie for disappointing you.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 1:10 AM, December 21, 2005  

  • "Some of us have had a beer with you, you weren't aware of it."

    I got a chuckle out of this.

    007 caliber, definitely. Groucho greasepaint, anyone?

    I regret that yu continue to perpetuate the "numbers" comment v.v. Mrs. Schmidt; taken out of context, it can't be understood, but although I've previously provided the necessary context, it continues to be quoted negatively; so be it, I guess.

    Numbers, in fact, are not neutral gauges of fact. They can be used in any way the bearer so desires, and we've seen plenty of this over the years.

    Have a fine holiday. I'm off to have a chat with Erik the professor, who of course doesn't exist.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 7:24 AM, December 21, 2005  

  • Great post Roger and even greater post oldernewalbanian.
    I'm sure there are people who are working silently in the background to try to renovate New Albany. For example, I know of a young man who is working to establish a high tech corridor using existing infrastructure downtown.
    On this blog, however, we are hung up on sewers, potty police, sanitation, corruption, mosquitoes, people bashing and the like.
    If these little people have any creative energy at all, they should aim it toward solving problems rather than complaining about them.
    Other cities much like this one have solved their sewage and sanitation problems and have gone on to have vibrant downtowns. Industries have responded by locating in these towns. Perhaps, a somewhat unwanted outcome has been the migrant laborers that have come in to take the lower paying jobs, but that is happening right here in this river city as well. I personally drove through several of these charming towns in North Carolina last summer and am considering leaving this wonderful dying burg for warmer climes.
    Then, I will be crying from afar about a town that my ancestors helped to found.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:46 AM, December 21, 2005  

  • East ender,

    If I took your response too directly at my post then you have my apology.

    I struggle with the anonymous posting issue. Look at me, in the middle. Registered and still not completely out in the open by withholding my true identity. Roger, of course, know who I am by virtue of his rules. Should you request, I will provide the same to you.

    I feel registering provides some continuity. After a few postings an "online" identity starts to emerge. I find it easier to understand what a poster is trying to say when the same online identity is used over multiple posts.

    On the other hand, I completely understand those who chose not to reveal their true identity. I don't condone slinging personal mud behind anonymous or even registered(but not out of the closet)posters.

    As to the issue of same minded opinions on NAC. You are basically correct. Healthblogger and a few others would not want to be lumped in! I feel that it is a direct response to his rules.
    I honestly believe that anyone who does not post there because they are afraid Roger would disclose their identity is mistaken.

    By Blogger Iamhoosier, at 8:48 AM, December 21, 2005  

  • OK, heres a start:

    How do we get both the Mayor and the Council firmly behind the Linden Lane project and the literal tens of millions of dollars for further redevelopment that it could bring to the city?

    How do we get the council to take a stance on making the sewer tap-in fee a free-to-taxpayers incentive to redevelop the inner city?

    If the big concern is money, why do they not proactively seek legislation, as scores of other cities have done, that could help with revitalization but require no expenditure?

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 10:22 AM, December 21, 2005  

  • Please, Please, walk a mile in our footsteps in order to understand WHAT PEOPLE have been trying to do for years in this town (that are outside the good ole boys).

    The Potty Police and Sewers are wrapped up as one (and this one is critical -- no infrastructure, no building); there is no more sanitation; The numbers being given out that night were "State" numbers from audits, other financials provided BY THE CITY TO COUNCIL. The reaction I saw was one of someone being "almost bit" by something because they were offered the information.

    Teeny Timmy takes care of the mosquitos, and he is really associated with the other blogs; cos he's just a name caller by birth, we guess.

    Too many people have come before any of us arrived on the scene and have done so much work to get nothing much accomplished. Sure hope that doesn't happen to you, but if it does, try not and get too frustrated, as people working on this 20 to 30 years have experienced and quit trying.

    Bluegill, I can't go along with your recommendation about McLean Park (Linden Meadows) and the houses they moved. With this matter being in litigation, Council can't touch it with a ten foot pole even if they wanted to. From what I have heard, some people in CHDO now feel they may have gotten some really bad advice from the City about where to locate these houses. There WERE neighborhoods that wanted these homes, but the City wouldn't let them have the houses to stimulate growth in their areas, and these areas sure could have used that opportunity.

    The Sewer Board (which met yesterday at 3:30 pm) will be the ones to make the call on lowering tap-in fees. 3:30 for Sewer Board, 10:00 am for Board of Works -- they make it so hard for the public to attend, huh? Mayor Garner, Bill Utz and Todd Solomon have voting rights; and if the quorum is there, Larry Kochert and Mark Seabrook can vote. We really don't see that as being a big issue for the Sewer Board, but it may -- they are SOOOOO financially strapped and need monies to do work they were already suppose to have done (it's such a vicious circle)!

    They get the monies for economic revitalization; they may not spend it in the right areas. We have seen some of the most "creative" financing deals worked out to get those monies.

    Take the UEZ (Urban Enterprise Zone), for example only. They drew the map up (bigger map, more monies) showing all the blighted areas in NA. They took E Main and Mansion Row and said it was "blighted", and below poverty levels. We were told they did this so they could pick up the old business back down E 6th St. If that was true, why didn't they come down River Road (Water Rd) and come up E 6th and pick up that "business" and not say Mansion Row is blighted and below poverty? We may have then had some UEZ money to go with the Greenway because River (Water) Road would have been covered in that deal. They have CDBG (Community Block Development Grant) monies; they get Federal Redevelopment grants / monies.

    I'd have to say the biggest problem is WHERE and WHAT they do with the monies. If you have noticed ANY revitalization going on in ANY neighborhoods, please let us know (I'd love to see my tax dollars at work).

    Thanks for asking. Redevelopment is mostly Federal monies (and public does good to see any paperwork from that side of the fence). Sewer Board is still in litigation; it's a mess. We'll keep working on cleaning it up, okay?

    If you can help, we "SHORE" appreciate it, and appreciate your reasonable dialogue. Thanks, our opinions.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:25 AM, December 21, 2005  

  • bluegill:

    the tens of millions of dollars that keep getting brought up as being available to new albany for redevelopment is an exaggeration. that's the amount of money available to the ENTIRE state of Indiana and is highly competed for, by communities that have their act far more together than we. New Albany would receive only a fraction of that amount, if any.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:02 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • The council most certainly can touch the Linden project. East Ender has leveled criticism at the Mayor, saying that he hasn't done a good enough job of expressing to the public what's actually at stake with the project, namely that completion of the project will lead to significantly increased opportunities for matching funds and other grant monies to address low cost housing needs and revelopment in general. I agree with that criticism but, if it's true of the Mayor's office, it's true of the council as well. There's much more involved in succesful council representation than simply reacting to the actions of others. None of those folks have done a good job at proactively advocating for anything to move the city forward.

    So we should abandon the project and all the potential it brings because it may have worked better somehwere else? Your whole paragraph about the situation focuses on whom should be blamed for the past. I'm much more concerned about how to get it done. One of the criticisms of comments on SOLNA is that they focus on problems rather than solutions. How do you intend to greatly increase our chances of getting tens of millions of dollars to use for housing and redevelopment? If you've got a better solution than supporting the Linden project, I'll support it.

    It's also important to note that CHDO would administer the money. Another possiblity is that a portion of the money (received by CHDO) could be used to fund citizen created and directed community development corporations (CDCs). The CDCs could, among other things, buy blighted properties, rehab them, and make them available via alternative financing methods (i.e., easier for most people to buy). It's an approach that's worked well in other cities and the completion of the Linden project could be our best, most immediate chance of bringing that appproach to New Albany and putting the money in the hands of people who do have a track record of success.

    Regarding the tap-in fees, it's entirely possible to both raise revenue and encourage inner city redevelopment simultaneously. First, since most new tap-ins occur in the exurb (only around 8% in the inner city, if I remember correctly), there is minimal financial risk in raising the tap-in fee in the exurb to offset waivers for the inner city. If they handle the fee correctly, it's entirely possible to bring in more revenue and still provide waivers. Second, it sends a clear message that redevelopment of existing neighborhoods is favorable to continued sprawl and provides a financial incentive to encourage it. Third, attempting to focus development efforts in the inner city is the most financially responsible course of action for any city official. It simply takes less money to provide services to citizens in a more densely populated, geographically central location than it does to provide the same services to citizens spread out in a decentralized exurb. Advocating a strong preference for inner city redevelopment over continued sprawl is the same as advocating for fiscal responsibility. Conversely, to not do so is to advocate irresponsiblity both fiscally and environmentally.

    People, including some council members and other city officials, who view downtown revitalization efforts only as a request to spend money are missing the point entirely. It's about finding ways to increase revenue while guarding against rising costs for both the government and citizens. Better quality of life for city residents is a bonus and will encourage the continued success of such endeavors by bringing people and their money to the city.

    Parts of the Main Street area are included in the UEZ maps and parts of it are not. This became an issue recently when the UEZ board was considering funding the development of the Main Street Preservation Association small area plan. The UEZ required MSPA to include other areas, my house in fact, in order to justify UEZ funding because not enough of their immediate area was included in the Urban Enterprise Zone. I'm not sure which parts are or aren't included.

    If you're just looking for me to say that the city (including lots of people) has handled redevelopment efforts poorly in the past, you don't even have to ask. That's exactly what I and a lot of others are saying.

    The sad part is that nobody seems to want to explore other options.Even the ones who style themselves as watchdogs are narrowly focused on puny cost saving measures that often by their own account don't amount to much while totally ignoring opportunities that include very real opportunities to bring millions of dollars into our community. Ideas are free and there are perfectly successful examples that have worked in other cities readily available, some of which, particularly legislation, can be implemented for little to no cost. Is it too much to ask for my own council representative to try to understand and be able to intelligently discuss them?

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 2:02 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • No, it's not an exaggeration. There's certainly no guarantee of a specific amount nor am I claiming any. There is credible evidence, though, that matching funds to the tune of six zeros would be immediately available. Beyond that, the amount that we can compete for (meaning that if all sources grant us the maximum award they give to individual organizations, a number that's different than the total monies they have to award to all organizations) is somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 million.

    If CHDO does indeed receive a fraction of that, aren't we a lot better off?

    Why not complete the project for 20 million? 10 million? How many small homes could be built or renovated for even 1 million, with those projects in turn making us eligible to compete for more? The adocacy I'm talking about is free of charge. A one million dollar return on a small investment of time seems like a good deal to me? Do you not think so?

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 2:35 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • Bluegill, the UEZ did map did not come in to creation when Main Street was looking at a neighborhood plan. This thing came in under either the last years of England or the first of Overton's. All of Main St's Historical area was affected. I know, I was there and fought Carl Malysz over it. One had nothing to do with the other.

    There is no guarantee we are going to get any sewer credits, period, for ANY KIND of development. We, the taxpayers and citizens, can't help that. We did our homework, researched and provided Councilman Garner and others with ALL of the research and analysis on the CURRENT status of the sewers at that time. Councilman Garner testified at a State Public Hearing he did not believe the "plan" implemented by Overton would work. The "clock" stopped ticking in April on resolving the sewer issues. We have been told they have extended fixing the Robert E. Lift until September of next year, since they left it out of the "plan". This plan did nothing more than to promote "decentralized exurb", something no one in the County nor in the City wants -- we went to those "20 year" City planning meetings, also.

    Glad we agree on most things. We have a feeling the CHDO will win their lawsuit, and that won't be an issue. Now, if they can only get sewer credits and the EPA allows it.

    The Council does meet in Executive Sessions regarding litigation, so you may know something there I don't.

    Older NewAlbanian, sorry I didn't respond about the dumpster. You probably know who I am, and if so, you know there isn't toooo much of anything we haven't witnessed in this town. We believe you and sure hope you are doing well.

    Hope all of you have a Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays, or whatever. Take care NA. Our opinions only.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:49 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • $$$$$$,

    Wasn't suggesting the UEZ map was created for the neighborhood plan...only that it affected the funding of the study to create the neighborhood plan.

    I'm not talking about executive council session. I'm talking about very public advocacy. There's no reason why the City Council can't comment on the Linden project. That's what I'm asking them and the mayor to do. If they had done so more effectively sooner, the majority of the city would better understand that there's a lot more at stake than a small number of houses and a small number of residents. It's a big and potentially huge deal. Most people don't know that.

    You're correct. The exurb has contributed significantly to our sewer problems. That's why I'd like to start reversing the exurb trend. The council has the most overall power to do that. So far, they've not shown the inclination.

    I appreciate the sentiment of your comment about us agreeing but I can't really tell what we're in agreement about.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 4:23 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • Look folks, here's where a lot of the misunderstandings and the frustrations come in.
    Some people say all we do here is sit as complain about what's not right, rather than going out and doing something about it.
    Well, GUESS WHAT?! WE HAVE GONE OUT AND TRIED TO DO SOMETHING!
    Know what we get? A door slammed in our faces, a "I'll get back to youuuuuuuu...."(fade), never to be heard from again. Or, "go home we don't have time to fool around with stuff like that."
    Or, the best one, "That's not my job."
    The vast majority of folks who are involved with this blog are just everyday people, who care about their city, their neighborhoods, and everything that goes into making them function.
    We have volunteered our time, worked tirelessly and relentlessly to make things better, and been active in public meetings and dialogue with our Council Reps.
    Only, we keep getting rushed aside.
    No one wants to listen, or do anything about the blatant code violations, ordinance infractions, housing conditions, or harassment.
    These are just a few examples.
    We have done, and continue to do, everything we can do to try to make a difference, change things, make things better, but our efforts are futile when we have no power to INSIST that these things get dealt with.
    Therefore, our main objective has become to disseminate the information about what is happening, and not happening, in the city and our neighborhoods, to as many people we can reach.
    First, because we believe people have a right to know, second, because if enough people are talking about the same thing, then maybe something will get done.
    This is not just a "bitch" blog, to simply complain about what we think is wrong. This is a tool by which we believe we can instigate change.
    No matter how intensly we believe about something, how much we talk about it at Council, how many times we talk to our Council, when it comes down to it the final decisions are made by the "Boards" and Commissions the Mayor sets up with voting privledges to make the final decision.
    Guess who sits on those voting boards? People who agree with the Mayor.
    We have, and we will continue to fight the good fight to bring New Albany into a brighter future. Even if our pleas go unheaded or we are pushed out the door. We will be back.
    Unfortunately, for oldernewalbanian, there comes a point when a person just can't take it anymore. I know personally that this person went to every City official she could think of, and every Board and Commission she was told to go to, and no one would do anything to protect her safety, her property, or her sanity. So she left.
    You know how the city looks at it?
    "Well, that's one down."
    It's a shame. No, it's a travesty.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 5:19 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • East ender,

    The council can do things at their very next meeting that would change things. I don't think it fair to again point only at the mayor (any mayor) and imply that the council is putting itself out actively advocating for the changes we all hope to see. They're not.

    I also don't think it fair to suggest that everyone on a board is in agreement with the mayor. It's simply not true.

    By Blogger Jeff Gillenwater, at 5:35 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • Laura, I have a question, and it's sincere. You signed the latest posting under your own name, but arrogate to yourself the mantle of "we."

    That makes it pretty hard to address what "we" did that got rebuffed.

    Pick an instance, and outline what happened and who rebuffed you. There are two sides to every story, too, so it will be important to get comment from the officials with whom this "we" spoke to see if the matter was ignored, or if there was a disagreement on the facts, or the evidence was thin, or what.

    I know the cops are loath to get in the middle of private disputes...in fact, they are absolutely prohibited from using their position to enforce private dispute interests.

    Still, lay out a past problem, or lay out a current situation that is not being addressed. With specifics, and with someone that will identify themselves sufficiently that an investigation can be started.

    I'm not trying to be any kind of unofficial ombudsman here, but for the most part, I haven't experienced the problems "we" claim to have. Ask a question, get an answer, has been my experience.

    So lay out a specific problem and let's see if we can't get it taken care of. OK?

    By Blogger All4Word, at 5:40 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • Your problem Mr. Baylor is this. Bottom line.

    1. Your always right and everybody else is wrong!

    2. Your 2nd biggie is you can not stand it east ender allows anonymous comments.

    3. And you have forgotten again this is east enders blog. You have your own blog.

    You don't like what certain or most people write or say on this blog. You choose to attack us and others.

    I personally have never felt offended by your remarks because I like others know the truth about this adminstration.

    I want answers, others want answers. But of course you Roger have all the answers. But again Roger you try to verbally abuse people. And defend the Mayor as if he does no wrong! Hello Roger are you still with me here?

    You Sir are a Psychology 101 text book case of a person with a personality disorder. As well as you having typical impaired social skills. As well as being a bully.
    Based on your actions.(now how does it feel for us to attack you)

    You Sir constantly accuse others including myself as being people of hate and anger.

    4.And "ROGER" what you need to learn is Respect is "Earned not Demanded!

    Do I hate you. Absolutely not! I personally think you are a phony.

    Because no one is ever/or always right. We all make mistakes<(but you) because we are humans.

    But if someone defends OR says something you do not like(regardless of the issue) You want to put the "Rath of Roger on them." Like I have said many many times... You Sir are the Minority in this town. Not the Majority.

    These issues we are asking about does not concern you Roger.(Because rember you have all the answers and you are right and we are wrong)
    If you are the Mayors best drinkin buddy who cares.

    Advice to you Sir please don't put all your eggs in one basket, cause you might have to end up eatting everyone of them!

    BOTTOM LINE WE WANT AN AUDIT!
    BOTTOM LINE WE WANT ANSWERS!
    Instead of excuses!

    Again if Mayor Garner has nothing to hide he would open the books!

    Lord knows if we can afford to pay $750.00 for his car mats. And us taxpayers are paying for outragious cell phone bills. And wasting our tax dollars what the hell does this Mayor have to hide.

    Our numbers(SOL-NA) and his numbers(Mayors) do not add up.

    Numbers is the bottom line here.

    1+1=2 not 3 Roger.

    Why do some people have to pay there sewer bills when others don't? Why can certain deals be cut, when we have to pay for their mistakes... We are tired of paying for other peoples "MISTAKES"

    Why do certain people not have to pay their property taxes when others do?
    And for your information Mr. Baylor this is happening and the truth on this and other matters will come to light in 2006.

    So accuse me of blowing smoke and not telling the truth. But beprepared to eat what ever attack you make on me and others.

    Because we have has enough. And you can take this to the bank.

    Lord we all learned alot after dealing with "OVERTON." Talk about "The Mayor from Hell.."

    And Sir if you do not believe the Democrats are not ready to "run James Garner out of town on a rail" you are talking to his employees not some of the Democrats who picked up his tab to get elected?

    Ask them Mr. Baylor!

    How come you never attack Bev Crump, Jack Messer, Donnie Blevins, Mark Seabrooks, Jeff Gayhan?

    My personal opinion most of them should not plan on getting re-elected. Because the democrats are lining people up to run against most of them as WE SPEAK!

    Some of these people are in the Mayors pocket and "do have" there own agenda.

    And if you really think Mayor James Garner is doing such a great job you have been hiding your head in New Albany sewers to damn long.

    And sir you have been drinking to many $10.00 pints.

    Merry Christmas Mr. Roger Baylor. Looking forward to battling with you again in 2006.



    Concern Taxpayer

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:01 PM, December 21, 2005  

  • Truth is hard to understand,when you refuse to listen to the real facts. This is one of the many problems some new people in New Albany have. They think they got all the answers instead of the right solution.

    happy holidays

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:56 AM, December 22, 2005  

  • Concern Taxpayer...

    Standing for RIGHT when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character

    "OF THE PEOPLE,BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE."

    Thank You
    CT

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:54 AM, December 22, 2005  

  • I think there may be a comprehension problem. Persons with his problem, read only a few words or sentences and remark on that before reading the entire thing. How sad!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:59 AM, December 22, 2005  

  • Looks like we have a lively debate going on here.

    Let's put all of that energy to work solving our problems.

    Happy Holidays

    Legal Beagle

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:08 AM, December 22, 2005  

  • Personal to "conceal taxpayer":

    Your answer is here.

    " Reply to "concern taxpayer": I was right again.”

    I have no desire to interrupt the healthy dialogue going on at SOLNA (as you did yesterday), so I'll keep my response to you out of the mix here.

    By Blogger The New Albanian, at 8:58 AM, December 22, 2005  

  • Indeed, Indeed. Roger u are right again. Concern Taxpayer, the answer lies in solutions, not compaining about this and the last administration. Sweeping these gentlemen out of office isn't going to accomplish anything. Guiding them to appropriate solutions will.
    Happy Holiday,
    Roland of Gilead

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:19 AM, December 22, 2005  

  • Plagarized: Source: Internet
    Luddite
    A Luddite is a person who fears or loathes technology, especially new forms of technology that threaten existing jobs. During the Industrial Revolution, textile workers in England who claimed to be following the example of a man named Ned Ludd destroyed factory equipment to protest changes in the workplace brought about by labor-saving technology. The term Luddite is derived from Ludd's surname. Today, the term Luddite is reserved for a person who regards technology as causing more harm than good in society, and who behaves accordingly.

    Extreme forms of Luddism involving wanton destruction of technology are rare these days, especially in countries where the standard of living is high. Usually, protests against robotization or other job-threatening technological advances take the form of work slowdowns, sick-outs, or strikes. It can be argued, however, that the malicious introduction of viruses and worms into the Internet is a form of modern-day Luddism.

    Contemporary Luddites (neo-Luddites) believe that society has become too reliant on technology, particularly computers. Once in awhile, an entire corporation, such as a bank, is crippled because of a computer glitch. Luddites derive satisfaction from events of this sort. Such inconveniences serve as reminders that technology exists to serve humankind, and that when this is forgotten, trouble can follow.
    Sophie Vitkovitsky has written a humorous parody entitled, "I Am The Very Model Of A Luddite On The Internet."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:27 AM, December 22, 2005  

  • You make us all proud CT. Happy Holidays.

    Seasons Greetings
    Speak Out Loud NA

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:25 PM, December 22, 2005  

  • Using a well accepted usage (such as you provided) is not plagiarism. Taking a person's work verbatim without credit is. You can erase my post like you always do, but it does not make it less true.
    PS: I have never met any of the people you rail against. I'm just telling you the info.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:04 PM, December 22, 2005  

  • Bravo, OlderNew Albanian -- we couldn't have said it better ourselves. Thank you. Merry Christmas to all!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:51 AM, December 23, 2005  

  • ceece the truth is everyone will not love you like your momma and daddy and sometimes they will even intentionally hurt you!!.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:28 PM, December 23, 2005  

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